#1  
Old 07-27-2014, 10:13 AM
mufan mufan is offline
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into the wind drivers with star plastics

Hi,
I had a rough day yesterday throwing into the wind. I was using a wraith on most shots (rbh) and would lose it out of bounds right due to instability. my next disc up is the xcaliber (170 g). very stable but I get very little distance out of it. I feel like I'm throwing a trash can lid and it goes about as far. here are a some questions I need help on:

do champion plastics generally fly farther than star? most guys use champion I've noticed.

on the innova website it goes Ape, xcal, trx, firebird down the column. I'm confused on what distance has to do with it? does a 9 not go as far as a 13? however, my farthest throwing Frisbee is a sidewinder (9 distance). is this a difference in stability going down the column? I really just need a disc that is more stable than a wraith but that I can throw farther than an xcaliber.

does weight affect stability? otherwise, why throw a heavy disc? I don't care if it flutters up and down....I want it to go far and not crash right and I'll be happy.

thanks,
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2014, 10:25 AM
Chainsgoching's Avatar
Chainsgoching Chainsgoching is offline
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I have found that Star Max is a very good headwind disc...I also throw Z Predators
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2014, 11:03 AM
tu-f-o tu-f-o is online now
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xcal is gonna be too beefy to be consistent, I'd go down to a star destroyer for more distance.
I personally like the flight of star more than champ in wind, seems more line-holding for me.

but i think it more depends on the mold and dome.
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2014, 11:07 AM
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Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
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Champion plastic tends to fly a little faster than star (specially once the discs are used a little star seems to have more surface resistance due to its texture increases a little glide) Its why you see many innova champion plastic discs flying slighty more OS (all things equal) than their star counterparts and even rated from the factory this way.

Sounds like you have some major technique problems going on as really any disc can be thrown in the wind and especially wraiths. Heavier discs are more about your playing style but I see no reason to use a 150 class OS disc for windy shots as the disc selection in relation to shot/line is much more important than the weight of the plastic being thrown and the light weight discs are not going to excel in very windy conditions which the disc you are throwing was designed for in the first place.

Teebird might be worth checking out if you are sold on innova' or the MVP volt if you want a controllable wind flighting fairway driver. Its a slower than your wraith without any high speed turn but faster than TB. So many options out there really you just need to work on your throwing it sounds like.

Last edited by Aim For The Chains; 07-27-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:55 AM
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mattc mattc is offline
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how far do you typically throw your sidewinder (on a regular day with no wind)?
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2014, 12:05 PM
rocthecourse rocthecourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattc View Post
how far do you typically throw your sidewinder (on a regular day with no wind)?
^This.

And what is the condition, weight and plastic of your Wraith?

Also, what were the wind speeds?
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2014, 12:13 PM
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Mike C Mike C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufan View Post
do champion plastics generally fly farther than star? most guys use champion I've noticed.
In general, the less durable plastics fly further as they have more glide. Denser plastics like Champ have less glide due to things like material density and surface friction, but they also tend to hold up better in a strong headwind.

Quote:
on the innova website it goes Ape, xcal, trx, firebird down the column. I'm confused on what distance has to do with it? does a 9 not go as far as a 13? however, my farthest throwing Frisbee is a sidewinder (9 distance).
Speed refers to the measurement of the disc wing. If you look at your Wraith, you'll notice the wing is wider than a Firebird, Teebird, Roc or Aviar.

Generally, the wider the wing of the disc, the further you need to be able to throw to see the flight numbers match what the disc does for you.

For example, lets say you throw 300'. I think Wraiths are rated 11/5/-1/3.5 or so. For a 300' thrower, you might find the Wraith flying more like 11/3.5/0/5 if its a max weight champ Wraith in good condition. For someone who throws 500', it might fly more like 11/5.5/-1.5/2.5.

So when you're new and looking at flight charts, its easy to think "Hey, 13 is faster than 11, so it must go further" but that is not always the case.

Quote:
I really just need a disc that is more stable than a wraith but that I can throw farther than an xcaliber.
Without knowing your distance and throwing style its hard to give you a genuinely useful recommendation. For me, throwing 475' at the time with a RHBH throw, I found the Discmania DD to fit the shots you are looking for. These days I throw an MVP Tesla for that slot. They work for me, but depending on how far you throw you might find them more overstable than you are looking for.

Quote:
does weight affect stability? otherwise, why throw a heavy disc?\
Yes. Heavy discs are more overstable then lighter versions of the same disc. There are a few reasons one might prefer a heavier disc...

-Consistency. Many players, such as myself, find more consistency with their throws if they throw all of their discs near the same weight. For example, I carry primarily discs in the 170-175g range when it comes to drivers.
-Consistency. Sometimes lighter discs are not molded as consistently as heavier discs, but this is more on the manufacturer than anything else.
-Wind resistance, as noted above.
-Rollers. Heavier discs work better for rollers because they carry more momentum as they plow through the grass and over twigs / roots.
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2014, 12:15 PM
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tylerc tylerc is offline
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a champion wraith would be a good buy. a recent run JL one I threw was plenty overstable enough for headwinds. the champion plastic is going to more overstable than the star plastic even when both are new. I always prefer to have champion plastic for my overstable stuff anyways mainly for durability and it is more overstable to start. if your star wraith is super beat u could just get a newer star wraith. but a champion wraith would be the way I would go
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