#1  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:39 PM
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ShannonHG ShannonHG is offline
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Hello!~ 1st Post!

Lots of you may know me. I own and operate a private course in Fuquay Varina called Higher Ground.
I started building the course in 1994 and through lots of very hard work, achieved 3 18 hole courses in one (played on same baskets), on about 13 acres of land (and water, including the 4.5 acre pond in the middle).
The course borders Middle Creek along one side and we even have a couple of holes that cross the creek.

I was introduced to this forum by a friend, Lowe Bibby, and came here to check out the course reviews and to say hello.

It's sad to say that the only review given so far on my course was written by someone who sounds so uptight he must expel a little gas every time he cracks a smile! (If he indeed smiles)

Please allow me to address some of this so called "experienced" player's observations...

Copied directly from his review...

This place has every one of my biggest beefs with disc golf courses.
Well...it's easy to see how "Mr Perfect" is going to "evaluate" the course from his first negative statement.

There's no tee signs.
Hey John...ya ever actually tried to maintain a disc golf course? Do you have any idea how much extra work and trouble it is to MOW GRASS around 50 tee signs, not to mention the cost and effort required to make and maintain them? Do you know how to read a MAP?? As a pilot I would assume you must be familiar with the USGS and know your way around an area from an overhead view. Not EVERY course needs a tee sign on every hole to get in the way of mowing and possibly even be dangerous to golfers...and yes I HAVE seen injuries caused by them. I keep scorecards in the donation box, with very accurate and detailed maps to the three courses. ALL tees are marked with the hole number and distance, as well as concrete tee pads, benches on some holes, and concrete statues on others to aid in finding them from a distance. The course maps on the back of the scorecards were made directly from a satellite photo of my land.
Did ya ever play Winthrop at Rock Hill? FYI It's one of the nicest courses in the state of SC and has been used to host many championship grade events. Like my course, it's on PRIVATE land and is multi use. Sometimes one must be courteous (something I doubt you know much about) and watch out for sunbathers or others enjoying the beautiful park there.
I designed my course after playing Rock Hill and I liked the way they had the tees (which were all natural at the time) marked by hole number and distance, painted on the end of concrete cylinders buried at the front corners of the tee box.
Did they have tee signs? NO
Did I have a map? NO
Did I get lost, and take an extra hour or so to play the whole course, having to find my way around in grass that was taller than the tee markers? YES I did, but if I had been supplied with a detailed map I would have had absolutely no problem.
Did I get my first ace there? YES
Was it a wrong hole ace? Yes it was but I still thought it was awesome! How was I to know I was throwing that 86 softie from what is now Hole #7's tee area to Hole #6's basket?
(actually I believe at the time it was from #3 tee to #18 basket)
Either way it was still an awesome shot and a very enjoyable first ace.
So over all...did I have fun, even without tee signs?
Ya damn right I did!


There's crossing fairways. This is a huge no no. I'll never rank a course with crossing fairways well.
Well why don't you stick to "ranking" courses that only follow your own pipe dream of a giant singular direction loop like Buckhorn at New Hill, or UNC that actually used to be a ball golf course? Maybe then you wouldn't have to have a "disclaimer" at the end of each of your "reviews".
This is a FUN course, designed to get as many playable holes as we could in a relatively small area, as far as golf courses go. It is by no means DANGEROUS like you say. I was very careful to place each tee pad safely out of range of the previous hole, or at least behind vegetation (as much as the available room allowed).
As far as crossing fairways, it's almost impossible to design a course that does not at least share some fairways. It is not uncommon at all on PRIVATE courses to even share a basket, and yes we do have a couple of those here too. No one has ever been injured by a disc here in the 14 years the course has been played. We have had regular tournaments every year and I have hosted three different well known disc golf tours...The Homegrown Tour (which in many people's opinion is the best tour going in NC disc golf, and has been since it first came to my course in '99), The Cape Fear Random Doubles Tour, and The Piedmont Random Doubles tour which I'm sure many of you are familiar with and played courses all over the state on. We have had as many 84 players at a time on 18 holes, and will most likely have over a hundred at the Homegrown event on the last day of this month, August 31st (my 43rd birthday). I have heard many people say how smoothly the course flows, even with an insane amount of people like that playing at the same time. That's for a reason John. It's well designed and a lot of thought went into it.
Keep in mind also that the majority of the time, there are no more than half a dozen groups out there, most of the time it's only ONE. That's why private courses are more enjoyable for most people, because you don't have to deal with large crowds and impolite people.
  #2  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:41 PM
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ShannonHG ShannonHG is offline
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Smile 1st post (part 2)

There's not enough room here to have a variety of hole types.
Yeah...bla bla bla...see above ^

They're all short.
That's an outright lie. Out of the three playable courses, we have 13 holes at 284' and above (out of those, 7 are 298' or above with 5 of them 300' or over, the longest being 350'). Get your facts straight!

I personally can't stand home made baskets and every basket here is home made.
Then don't play on them! I don't recall inviting you out and making you suffer through them. It's a PRIVATE home made course. There are certain challenges you must face. If you aren't up to them, then go play somewhere else and whine about it. waaaaaaaa.
And this..."every basket here is home made."
Again...get your facts straight liar.
There are 4 baskets on the course that are NOT home made. Two of them are Innova Mach 2's and two are Tri States. The two Machs have a little hurricane damage and were kindly donated to me by Carlton Howard and Jim Markov. They are both "unique" and both have many aces on them. If you can't putt well enough to make it in a less than "perfect" basket, I pity you....NOT. You and the other greatest golfer in the world, Tiger Woods can both whine all you want about distractions... waaaaaaaa grow up.


Most are different and some are silly.
Hahahaha...I laugh in your general direction....That was the original intent "Mr Perfect". You call yourself exprienced, but you need to open your eyes and expand your horizons about what disc golf is all about. Overly critical people like you SUCK and are not enjoyable to play around. FYI when disc gold first started out there were only "targets" to throw at. Just because a course doesn't have 18 Mach 3's does not make it any less of a fun course, to most people...

Because of the lack of land there's some holes up around the houses. They're not pretty holes and i'm not a fan of that. I think golf courses should be beautiful places.
Dude you really need to get a grip. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you are the very first out of literally over a thousand people to have played my course, that I've ever heard make such a bold and ridiculous statement!
LOL...and you even call yourself "pretty" hahahahahaha

Also the fairways and distance between a lot of the tees and pins are too close. If there are lots of people on this course there would definitely be a chance of disc to the head.

Yeah yeah bla bla bla....we'll see about that in two weeks when we have 100 people all crowded together having FUN!

Oh too your credit...you did manage to find just a couple of nice things to say...thanks...
"I'm not a fan of this place but there are a lot of people in the area who love it."
Gee I wonder why that is?

"I think it's great that someone goes through all the pain to make a course on their property."
You sir...have no idea.

"There's some good water holes here. In fact. They're very good. The holes around the water are short and fair. Theres also multiple tee positions here, if I remember correctly."
You are correct thanks.

Then there's your pathetic "disclaimer" at the end of your "review"...

I'm not trying to trash a home made course. I'm just trying to give an unbiased opinion of the course that is consistant with how I rate all courses.

A comment regarding my evaluation of courses. I am not trying to insult or hurt any ones feelings when I review a course. I'm just trying to evaluate the course on what I feel are important characteristics of a good course.

Opinions are like "you know what"...everyone's got one. You are entitled to yours. Why don't you think about the people who might come here and read your ridiculous "reviews" and possibly never get the chance to see a course that THEY might indeed think is a GREAT course. I see that "1 out of 1" people have already found your "review" helpful. I feel sorry for this person if they take you at your word and believe the lies you spread about courses all around. Only God knows what other lies you have posted with your snotty little "reviews" of all those courses you've played. I hope people read my post here and take everything you say from now on with a grain of salt.

ANY of you are welcome to come out and see my course for yourself and I hope you enjoy it more than this clown did.

Thank y'all for your time and for allowing me this space to defend Higher Ground against such a ridiculous "review". I can only hope that the mods or admins of this forum will pay attention to the "reported review" I'm about to make right now, and will take that crap down before someone else finds it 'helpful'....
Come out and see Higher Ground for yourselves on August 31st. It will be in tip top shape for our biggest tourney of the year.
Any of you are also welcome to come out and pitch in on some course workdays between now and then. PM me for details and I will help set you up with a small project before you get in a practice round. Then let me know what you think. I guarantee the majority of you who make it will also find this "John's review" not worthy of these pages.

Hopefully someone else will write up a real review of my course here....one that doesn't require a disclaimer at the end....

I do plan on coming back here to post some pictures of the course on here for all to see. Right now though, I've already spent too much time here typing when I need to be outside mowing to prepare the course for todays random draw doubles tourney, which we have one of every Sat afternoon starting at 3 PM. The best times to play the course are on Saturdays or soon after, because it has been freshly mowed and all the greens and fairways carefully manicured.

Thank you and good day.
  #3  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:06 PM
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timg timg is offline
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This could have been handled more diplomatically and over PM rather than publicly attacking another member like you did. The course wasn't his cup of tea.. it happens. As more, hopefully unbiased, reviews come in, a more accurate picture of the course will be painted.

I'm also not in the business of censoring opinions that may not be popular. If you'd like to argue your case, perhaps a nicely (<- KEY WORD) worded PM to the reviewer would produce results.

For those curious, here is a link to the course in question: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1357
  #4  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:48 PM
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ShannonHG ShannonHG is offline
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I didn't come here to cause any trouble. I came here for the first time and read a review of my course that included lies and IMO, too much negativity. You may not be in the business of censorship. I applaud you for that. I'm a moderator on an internet forum myself and I can appreciate all the things related to them.
Yes, I could have just sent him a PM. He lives local to me. I could even pay him a visit. That would not settle anything though, toward the other members here who read this guys drivel and might believe what he says. Helping spread lies by enabling is far worse than censorship IMO. Thank you for not censoring me.
A private message to the reviewer will not undo any possible harm to the course's reputation, that comes from people logging on here, who have never even seen it, an make up their minds about it based on his opinion.
I'll have you know that the guy who literally wrote the rule book on disc golf is a close personal friend of mine. I've never heard ANY of these type negative comments about the course from him, or any of the other local Pros who play here.
  #5  
Old 08-16-2008, 03:00 PM
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Well people on here can update their reviews so a PM explaining something that may be wrong in a review could result in a score change or additional info being added. Scores are not locked in by any means. As far as not hearing any negatives from the guy that wrote the disc golf rule book.. he obviously has a different opinion than the reviewer.

Like I said, as more reviews come in, the average score will balance out. If you added course info (a map, photos, etc.) that would certainly help your cause. If a course only has one review, even a not so great one, and it looks good in photos I'd still be likely to try it out. I think most of the people here really start paying attention to score once a course starts getting a few reviews under its belt rather than a single review that may or may not reflect the majority opinion.
  #6  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:51 PM
johnt1969 johnt1969 is offline
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Shannon,

I'm sorry that you feel I've crossed the line with my review. It's always hard to convey the correct emotion in written word. Please read this forum post and all reviews knowing that I'm not writing with contempt. I'm just trying to convey what I feel is important. I also tend to have a bit of a sarcastic personality and that usually doesn't come off too well in written word.

I would like you to know that I do understand the amount of work and money that it takes to install and maintain a course. I know it would be a complete pain for you to have tee signs, baskets and pads but that doesn't stop me from wanting them on every course I play. There are a lot of things that I think are important features on courses and I rate all courses according to those things. Even if they're private courses. It might not seem fair but that's how I do it.

From your reply I know that you don't think crossing/shared fairways are a big deal but I will never be convinced otherwise. In 1994 I got hit in the face by a Innova Stingray on a course where the fairways were right on top of each other. I ended up with a nasty cut that required some medical attention and almost made me miss a tournament that I traveled all the way across the country for. The discs now have much sharper edges than they did back then and it's just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured. Remember that these discs are coming out of our hands between 50 and 100 mph. If a new Wraith goes awry and hits someone at those speeds it could be devistating.

I'm sorry that I misspoke about all the baskets being home made. I didn't remember that some of them were normal disc golf baskets. I'm also sorry that I didn't know about the course map with all the tee positions marked. I will go update my review of the course to include those things.

The great thing about this web site is that everyone can share opinions on courses. My review of your course was only that. An opinion. I fully admit and agree that I'm can be harsh when I write reviews about places that I don't like. Some of the harshness is a failed attempt at sarcasm that doesn't go over well in written form. But anyway... the nice thing is that we all have different opinions. If soneone doesn't agree with my opinion they can check out my reviews and go to the places that I don't like. If people do agree with my opinion then they can play the places I review high knowing that there's a chance that they will like them.

As more disc golfers find this site and start using the review feature then my review of your course may not hold any validity at all. I know there's many people in the area who like your course. That's how I found out about it.

Once again. My review was not meant to be a personal attack on you. Thank you for spending the time, money and effort to have and maintain a course on your private property. I know many of the disc golfers in the area like the course and they all appreciate the hard work you put in to it.

John
  #7  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:30 PM
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Donovan Donovan is offline
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ShannonHG,

There is one really great thing about the review section on this site. Now that you have joined us, you can go review your own course. Please feel free to do that! I am sure we would love to read it. I think it is great when the course owner/designer comes in a reviews their own course.

Can't wait for your review and welcome to DGCourseReview.com.
  #8  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:51 PM
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**Sigh**
He should have just written his own review.
  #9  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:21 PM
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magictenor1 magictenor1 is offline
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Amen
 
  

  #10  
Old 08-17-2008, 09:44 AM
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Marv Vega Marv Vega is offline
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Wow, such drama! If you don't like a review, write (in your opinion) a more accurate one. When enough reviews come through an accurate picture of the course will emerge.

Last edited by Marv Vega; 08-17-2008 at 09:47 AM.
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