#11  
Old 12-21-2011, 05:54 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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(1) Question of whether the water is O.B. Strictly speaking, it's only O.B. if the TD or the course map has designated it as such. However, it's a pretty good rule of thumb if you're playing casually that a body of water like that is entirely O.B., right up to the edge, even the "playable" shallows.

(2) Floating. A disc is "at rest" when it's floating, even if still being moved by the wind or waves. If you saw it floating offshore, it would be O.B., no matter where it ended up.

(3) But you can only call what you see. If your only evidence is the disc at rest, touching shore, I think you have to go with that.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:06 PM
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urwatuh8 urwatuh8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
Unless there was some sort of very strong current, it's very hard for a floating disc to climb back onto land.
It hadn't climbed onto land. The grass was right at the shore edge and the disc was leaning against it. The entire bottom of the rim was touching water.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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ChrisKramer ChrisKramer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urwatuh8 View Post
It hadn't climbed onto land. The grass was right at the shore edge and the disc was leaning against it. The entire bottom of the rim was touching water.
Out.
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2011, 08:31 PM
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412Disc 412Disc is offline
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If you can throw from a lake, we say go ahead. No penalty
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2011, 08:47 AM
krupicka krupicka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urwatuh8 View Post
It hadn't climbed onto land. The grass was right at the shore edge and the disc was leaning against it. The entire bottom of the rim was touching water.
It doesn't matter if it is touching water. The only thing that matters is if part of the disc is in bounds.
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  #16  
Old 12-22-2011, 09:23 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Still not clear from the description, whether it's just blades of grass extending into the pond, or if it's grassy land on the end of the pond.

In the former, if the pond is O.B., I think the O.B. line is the edge where water meets land, and is a vertical plane. Grass blades or other vegetation extending over water would still be O.B., unless you can consider them a playing surface, which seems doubtful. (Water does not always create an ideally precise O.B. line).

As for an earlier question of whether a floating disc can float ashore, at least in part to be inbounds, current isn't likely to do it but a sufficient wave can. (Only inbounds if you didn't see it happen, of course).
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2011, 09:44 AM
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TmCHILLfromCEDARHILL TmCHILLfromCEDARHILL is offline
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I have to agree with some points and disagree with some points. The lake line of ob is a verticle line that if you push your disc straight down, would it indeed sink. If so you are OB, if there is some piece of land or rock smashed into mud that the edge of the disc is sitting on and when you push straight down and your disc does not sink, you are In bounds. Also, if you throw a shot into a tree and it falls before you mark it/find it you are in bounds as long as you found it in time. If you lost it and didnt find it for a few minutes and decide to Re-tee you can take a provisional, and if your disc falls before you throw from your second teeshot(4th stroke), you are in bounds and no penalty stroke is to be given!

it doesnt matter if it came to rest ob or not, the question is "where is it when you marked it?" If you marked your shot under the spot in the tree where you came to rest and it falls as you release your mini, you will still be stroked for the OB penalty.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:53 AM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TmCHILLfromCEDARHILL View Post
it doesnt matter if it came to rest ob or not, the question is "where is it when you marked it?" If you marked your shot under the spot in the tree where you came to rest and it falls as you release your mini, you will still be stroked for the OB penalty.
Actually, based on the wording of the rules, once you arrive at the disc, you're penalized. I believe the intent of this is to allow for border cases where it's unclear from a distance if it's above two meters. If it falls before you can measure it, you're good.

Quote:
D. No penalty shall be incurred if the disc falls, unassisted by a player or spectator, to a position less than two meters above the playing surface before the thrower arrives at the disc. The thrower may not delay in order to allow the position of the disc to improve.
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  #19  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:16 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Quote:
TmCHILLfromCEDARHILL - If you lost it and didnt find it for a few minutes and decide to Re-tee you can take a provisional, and if your disc falls before you throw from your second teeshot(4th stroke), you are in bounds and no penalty stroke is to be given!
You can't throw a provisional for a potential lost disc after the 3 minutes has passed. It's now officially lost even if it drops out while you're walking back to retee. You can throw a provisional from the tee before you start looking when you think your disc might be lost to save time if indeed you can't find your disc. If you do find your disc and your lie is terrible, you cannot use your provisional if you decide you would like an optional rethrow. The provisional can only be used if the disc is actually lost. You have to go back and retee for your optional rethrow.
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2011, 10:20 AM
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Brall Brall is offline
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just fyi

Quote:
803.03 Marking the Lie
A. After each throw, the thrown disc must be left where it came to rest until the lie is established by the placing of a marker. This can be done by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface between the hole and the disc, directly in line with the hole, on the line of play, touching the thrown disc. A player may instead choose, without touching or repositioning the thrown disc, to use the thrown disc as the marker. The marker may not be moved until the throw is released. A marker inadvertently moved prior to the throw shall be returned to its correct location.

B. A player is only required to mark the lie with a mini marker disc when repositioning the lie under the rules. This includes the following rules: out-of-bounds, disc above or below the playing surface, lost disc, optional rethrow, relocated for relief, interference, or repositioning the lie within 1 meter of the out-of-bounds line.

C. If the thrown disc comes to rest in-bounds but within one meter of an out-of-bounds line, the lie may be relocated to any point on a one-meter line that extends perpendicularly from the nearest point on the out-of-bounds line, and passes through the center of the thrown disc. This holds true even if the direction takes the lie closer to the hole. See the following sections for other considerations in marking a thrown disc:
(1) Relocated for relief - 803.05 B, C
(2) Interference - 803.07 A, B
(3) Above or below the playing surface - 803.08 A, B
(4) Out-of-Bounds - 803.09 B
(5) Lost Disc- 803.11 B

D. The Rule of Verticality: The out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane. Where a player's lie is marked from a particular point within one meter of the out-of-bounds line pursuant to the rules, the one-meter relief may be taken from the particular point upward or downward along the vertical plane.

E. If the thrown disc breaks and comes to rest in more than one piece, the largest piece, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official, is deemed to be the thrown disc.

F. A disc thrown in water shall be deemed to be at rest once it is floating or is moving only by the action of the water or the wind on the water.

G. A player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a marking rule if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. One penalty throw shall be assessed for each subsequent violation of any marking rule during the round if observed by two or more players of the group or an official.
Quote:
803.09 Out-of-Bounds
A. A disc shall be considered out-of-bounds only when it comes to rest and it is clearly and completely surrounded by the out-of-bounds area. A disc thrown in water shall be deemed to be at rest once it is floating or is moving only by the action of the water or the wind on the water. See section 803.03 F. The out-of-bounds line itself is considered out-of --bounds. In order to consider the disc as out-of bounds, there must be reasonable evidence that the disc came to rest within the out-of-bounds area. In the absence of such evidence, the disc will be considered lost and the player will proceed according to rule 803.11B.

B. A player whose disc is considered out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next shot from:
(1) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved from an approximate lie, as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official; or (2) A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. This holds true even if the direction takes the lie closer to the hole; or (3) Within the designated Drop Zone, if provided. These options may be limited by the tournament director as a special condition (see 804.01).

C. The Rule of Verticality. The out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane. Where a player's lie is marked from a particular point within one meter of the out-of-bounds line pursuant to the rules, the one-meter relief may be taken from the particular point upward or downward along the vertical plane.

D. If the in-bounds status of a disc is uncertain, either a majority of the group or an official shall make the determination. If the thrower moves the disc before a determination has been made, the disc shall be considered out-of-bounds, and he or she shall proceed in accordance with 803.09 B counting all throws made prior to the determination of the in-bounds status of the original lie. If a player other than the thrower moves the disc before a
determination has been made, the disc shall be considered in-bounds, and play for the thrower and the mover of the disc shall proceed under the rules of interference, 803.07 B and C.
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