#21  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:29 PM
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optidiscic optidiscic is offline
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I wanted to throw a bone to gold players with the D and skill to birdie a long hole.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course...2/95f73154.jpg


On hole 3 at Sellersville I asked Devin Frederick if he could birdie the 420 foot hole...open field to a semi protected green.. and he said absolutely yes
It ends up being in the NAGS for many players (my dreaded 3.5 zone but I wont dredge into that) but I wanted a few holes that would split the better players from the pack. As it stood the course was very technical and rewarded players with a good short game. The chance to separate oneself was a good thing IMHO
I also think theres a thrill to a great upshot of 150-200 feet that parks under the basket...I do keep some splitter trees around though to keep it interesting so maybe not a true NAGS shot
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:39 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Sounds like your hole 3 would get a poor rating from a design standpoint unless it was maybe the Red tee. There is no justification for a relatively open gold hole in that range, except maybe in a final 9 for super gold as a potential score spreader.

During PW2007 at Highbridge, Feldberg complained to me that there were no gold holes in the 390-460 range on the courses and I thanked him for the compliment...
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by optidiscic View Post
lol

so essentially you want no advantage to a big arm? (I am a weak arm myself)
big arms have an inherent advantage on most holes anyway... the darkside at blockhouse is heavily wooded with almost every hole being reachable for someone who can throw 325-330. the only people who shoot extremely good scores on it however are the ones who can reach all those holes with a buzzz or a roc rather than with a destroyer or something similar. when skinner shot his 1100+ round on it he probably didn't throw a driver more than 4-5 times.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:53 PM
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denny ritner denny ritner is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
There is no justification for a relatively open gold hole in that range, except maybe in a final 9 for super gold as a potential score spreader.
From the picture of the hole in question, I'd tend to agree, although not for the same reason that I'd suspect you have. I'd guess that you're objecting to too low of a percentage of birdies. My problem with a hole like that is too low of a percentage of bogeys, since it's wide-open until just around the basket.

I used a hole with similar distance on The Red Hawk that worked well. It was a long par 3, 415 ft. that played more like 440 ft. A power player could park the hole, but not without a good amount of risk. Many players tried to end up about 40-50 ft. right of the basket for a longish birdie putt.

The "park job" route was a high L-R-L flex shot. A safe alternative was a L-R shot that stayed right. Another safe alternative was a giant spike hyzer. (although there was some OB long on that route.)

I believe the distribution for the gold pool was about 15% birdies, 65% pars, and 20% bogeys.

Sorry I don't have a better pic. The basket was about 125. past the tall, skinny pine on the left side of the pic and behind that big area of schule.

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Old 01-21-2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by keltik View Post
you're welcome Broseph David.
Can't you smell the potential for more over here?

I had encountered this NAGS phenomenon before but never really gave thought to it, this is an interesting topic.

Barber Park (Greensboro, NC) suffers greatly from NAGS for lots of blue level players I think.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:59 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Not only a low percentage of birdies BUT only a handful of the longest arm players would ever have a chance at a birdie unless maybe the hole was rollable. I'm okay with 15% birdies if everyone at the skill level has a shot at getting one on any given round.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:07 PM
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denny ritner denny ritner is offline
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You're right (for either example) that only the big arms could "park" it, but most gold players could get within 60 ft. for a putt.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:21 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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That's another problem with hole designs being too long. People at the skill level should be able to get within 10m or longer by overthrowing the hole. I keep hearing justifications for hole lengths where it's not too long because players can throw far enough to get within 10m. But that means they can't reach most of the green and certainly can't hole out unless they can throw it far enough and high enough off the ground to buzz the basket. Think of ball golf. There are almost no par 3 holes so long that a player shooting from their proper tee can't easily overshoot the green.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:24 PM
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optidiscic optidiscic is offline
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So explain this to me geniuses of course design

So essentially every drive should set up another drive or a putt

In this No Nags zone...approach shots are all bad? Or are you saying open field flat no obstacle greens are the only approach shots that are NAGS?

I still think there is room for one wide open simple basket in a field hole...it's amazing how often players mess up on these.....it also gives the wind a chance to be a true obstacle
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
That's another problem with hole designs being too long. People at the skill level should be able to get within 10m or longer by overthrowing the hole. I keep hearing justifications for hole lengths where it's not too long because players can throw far enough to get within 10m. But that means they can't reach most of the green and certainly can't hole out unless they can throw it far enough and high enough off the ground to buzz the basket. Think of ball golf. There are almost no par 3 holes so long that a player shooting from their proper tee can't easily overshoot the green.
This is a good point but I don't like it as it would create a slew of easy par 4 holes if everyone agreed to this logic
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