different tee pad lengths

[Lewis]

If a concrete pad is smaller than 5'x12', I'd rather not have it there at all, and it takes a lot of attention to keep concrete pads level with the ground around them.

I like the suggestion to install 4" thick pads rather than to shorten them or make them narrower. Shaving an inch of thickness from 5" to 4" will add more than 4 full-sized pads to your budget without making any other cuts. If your course already has level, solid natural pads, I don't think you're going to need 5" of concrete for your pads. In either case, you should avoid driving over them in your pickup trucks.

[hognosesucker]

I haven't been involved with all the teepad talk, I think the 5" thickness suggestion had to do with the issue of the constant freeze/thaw process we go through in the winter, also I think our frames will be made from 2x6s. Most of our natural tees are on flat ground right now. I definitely like the idea of installing pads in steps. I think part of the reason we want to get at least all of the tees on the champ side done is to make sure the park won't go back on letting us install pads at the short AND long tees after they have a chance to evaluate the project's effect on the natural beauty of the park.

[Almighty_Ed]

I'm a union cement mason and I've been pouring concrete just 50 miles south of you for 20+yrs. Freeze and thaw is not that big of an issue with concrete in our area. With a properly prepared subgrade(2"min compacted crushed stone) and wire mesh reinforcement(also a must) 5" thick is overkill. Any engineer will back me up that 4" is standard and from my experience 3" will do just fine.

If cracks are your concern, then sawcuts not extra thickness is your answer. Look at a sidewalk. Those grooves across tooled in every 4 or 5 feet are there for crack control. If the concrete does crack, it will crack in these weakened plane areas/grooves. The wire mesh(looks like fence wire) will keep it from heaving on each side of these grooves. The same concept is done with sawcuts. The concrete is simply cut an inch deep with a saw the next day in the same manner as the grooves in a sidewalk. Sawcuts give a much cleaner look and dont fill up with dirt or grow grass over time like the tooled grooves, but most engineers and architects prefer the look of tooled joints.

I poured and finished all the concrete at O'reillys in Salem and most of the concrete at the one in Centralia. The parking lots are 5-6" thick with sawcuts and the sidewalks are 3-4" with tooled grooves. Take a look at them and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[hognosesucker]

Originally Posted by Almighty_Ed

I'm a union cement mason and I've been pouring concrete just 50 miles south of you for 20+yrs. Freeze and thaw is not that big of an issue with concrete in our area. With a properly prepared subgrade(2"min compacted crushed stone) and wire mesh reinforcement(also a must) 5" thick is overkill. Any engineer will back me up that 4" is standard and from my experience 3" will do just fine.

If cracks are your concern, then sawcuts not extra thickness is your answer. Look at a sidewalk. Those grooves across tooled in every 4 or 5 feet are there for crack control. If the concrete does crack, it will crack in these weakened plane areas/grooves. The wire mesh(looks like fence wire) will keep it from heaving on each side of these grooves. The same concept is done with sawcuts. The concrete is simply cut an inch deep with a saw the next day in the same manner as the grooves in a sidewalk. Sawcuts give a much cleaner look and dont fill up with dirt or grow grass over time like the tooled grooves, but most engineers and architects prefer the look of tooled joints.

I poured and finished all the concrete at O'reillys in Salem and most of the concrete at the one in Centralia. The parking lots are 5-6" thick with sawcuts and the sidewalks are 3-4" with tooled grooves. Take a look at them and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Awesome, this is the kind of expertise that we don't have in our club. Thanks!

[chain-addicted]

Dang... Ed's knowledge reigns supreme!

[hohman]

THANKS for all the great advice peeps; keep it coming!!!

Hey Ed, any chance of coming to help when we do this. We could use it!!!

[dahig]

thanks for the great advice ed...
installation instructions are what we need. none of the boys in the club have any experience with ground prep, set-up (forms), pouring or finishing. we are tyrying to collect as much info as possible to make sure that we are installing a safe, quality product that will last for years.

[Almighty_Ed]

No problem guys. Any questions at all just fire away. As far as me helpin out, it's possible but if the weather is nice enough for you guys to do them chances are I'll be busy as hell.

[dahig]

question...
once the concrete is poured how long does it need to
"set" before brooming the surface?

also...
how rough of a broom do you need for a nice texture?

[Lewis]

Originally Posted by dahig

question...
once the concrete is poured how long does it need to
"set" before brooming the surface?

also...
how rough of a broom do you need for a nice texture?

It depends on the conditions, but do it before it's dry. You don't want to wait until after you can walk on it, but you don't want to do it immediately after pouring. If you've ever worked with clay in art class, think of when your clay is no longer soft, but sort of a leathery hardness where it holds its shape but still has some evident moisture in it. By the time the concrete goes pale as it dries, it's probably too late. With quickcrete, I think it takes an hour or so for it to get to the right state, but that's dependent on weather and how sunny a spot you're pouring in.

Get one of those big, stiff-bristled push brooms with the rectangular head. You want a really rough head. Also, you want to pull the broom across the surface rather than pushing it. You can bear down to give the grooves some depth, but you want to avoid gouging the surface.