I'm putting together a proposal for Leesburg, VA

[NovaDiscHead]

Ida Lee park has a nice open area that the manager is willing to look at for a Disc Golf course. Here's some questions for the experts here:

1. The land is open, with few trees. How do I address this for designing a course for ultimate safety? Has anyone here succeeded in getting a park to add trees for a new course?

2. The park manager wants to get some revenue from the venue. What are the margins they can expect on disc sales? How would they be able to get people to pay? Would an honor system work, or do some parks have an actual "ticket taker" for admission.

3. I want to propose three phases for this guy, as he's a bit skeptical. Phase 1- 18 holes, rubber tees. Phase 2- alternate basket placements and pro tees (rubber or dirt). Phase 3- concrete tees for both pro and rec, benches, bag holders, practice basket. How do I quantify mileposts to reach between the phases?

4. Does anyone have a successful presentation that I can use as a template?

5. Does anyone have any advice on how to get this done, dealing with local politics, etc.

Thanks!

[cydisc]

1. Trees tend to cost money and take a long time to grow to the point that they are effective obstacles. Young trees don't like being hit with discs, either. I've been involved with courses where they've augmented the number of trees, but never starting from scratch.

2. Pay-to-play depends a lot on controlling access to the site. You'll probably need someone to collect fees and patrol for course jumpers as honor boxes almost never work. Disc sales... hard to say without knowing what kind of traffic you'll have and whether other retailers will jump on it.

3. Don't forget signage. Baskets and tee signs are probably the two most important elements of the course. Holding off on concrete until later is a wise decision. As far as mileposts go, I suppose the most obvious is to commence each new phase once the cost, or a portion thereof, is realized through your fees and sales.

4. I don't have anything written down. I think the PDGA website might have some stuff you can use.

5. Please hire a qualified designer. It's worth every penny. Chuck Kennedy of the Disc Golf Course Designers group should be able to put you in touch with one. ck34ATaolDOTcom

[DavidSauls]

1. Trees are an expensive and long-range issue....it'll be years before they affect the course. But see if there are local organizations, or the parks department itself, that want to plant trees as a park improvement/landscaping item, and coordinate them with the course. In the meantime, the course will need to be designed to be reasonably playable while open. (One idea is to put a line of trees along one side of a fairway, and let the trees define OB on an imaginary line connecting their trunks.)

2. Depends on where you are. If it's not limited access, honor system is all you've got; you'd never take in enough to pay a tickettaker. Besides, most play is done in late afternoons when there is little or no staff available.

Face the fact that honor system will generate some revenue, while many people will be less-than-honorable.

If the park sells merchandise, roughly expect 40% of gross sales to be profit. How much they'll sell, depends on the area.

Tournaments may be another fundraiser. Courses have been paid off by running tournaments and either (1) using part of the proceeds for course expense or (2) profiting on the Am merchandise prizes. Again, depends on where the course is, how many disc golfers might play tournaments there, and whether the course is good enough to attract them.

3. The phases is fine. If the parks department is putting up the money, wait until phase 1 is paid for, then ask them to put up more for phase 2, etc.

4. Innova has some great presentation materials. A Course Designer can probably help, as well. You might also get references from similar parks departments elsewhere, who have been successful with their courses.

5. Teach the manager to play, and get him or her hooked!

[biscoe]

timber should have plenty of nova appropriate info.

[tmahan]

For the pay-to-play to really work the design will need to be one worth paying for, so the lack of trees may be a real issue. I know personally, and I'm dying for a course anywhere in northern Fairfax County or Loudoun, that won't end up playing much if the course looks like the back 9 at Heritage Farms in Walkersville. I'd love to look at the area to see what could be done, you can do a lot with a few trees and nice changes of elevation.

The phased approach sounds fine. The main thing is to design it with an eye toward the long-to-long configuration from the start, even if the long tees and pin settings won't be in for several years. Folks can always make up long tees on their own until the course gets established.

[phishbrained]

Even before stage one you could use brightly colored poles instead of baskets. This will show the course design and make it playable without costing a bunch for baskets.

[djjeremiahj]

If you need a good proposal you can use the one that was used in San Francisco. It's been used a few times successfully in other areas as well..


http://www.sfdiscgolf.net/resources/proposal_2.doc

[Billipo]

Pay to play has to be a great course. Disc golfers have been spoiled with free courses. Without trees, i can't imagine it.

Is the property owner paying for the course?

DIsc golf has evolved past the old days where you beg for a course, offer to fund the project, and shame your disc friends for money to make it happen.

[prerube]

I agree, Timber should be contacted if this is a NOVA course.

[Timber]

I have been unwilling to commit to another project until I finish the Burke tee signs. Initial draft has been submitted to the manufacturer, expecting a reply next week. Should be installed after the spring thaw.

Must focus on Giles this winter, It is the best time of year to attack the thorns.

I'll consider doing something at Ida Lee in the late spring or early summer.