#11  
Old 01-31-2012, 04:29 PM
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denny ritner denny ritner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbins66 View Post
Here's a rough diagram of a hole I played about a month ago that has what I consider a single Mando(Right of the large corner tree) and a double Mando (between two large trees at the top of the hill). Hole plays straight and level for about 75' then slopes off downhill to the right for about 250' to the 1st Mando. After clearing this mando(Right side as viewed from Tee) the hole turns straight back uphill for about 200' before leveling off between the two Double mando trees. Fairway is clear but tight but any shot off the fairway in the first 200' adds strokes because there are many trees to deal with.

looks like a nice hole. i can see that the first mando prevents cutting the corner through the woods. i don't understand the need for the double mando, though. it looks like the hole has got sufficient challenge and the DM looks gimmicky, imo.
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2012, 04:38 PM
1978 1978 is offline
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Scott brought this up (I think) as he got thinking about hole 14 at Nevin.

The Mando markers on the ground were hidden under leaves so there was confusion on casual play if the actual mando was missed. The tree on the right is about 30' closer than the one on the left. The mando lines have been refreshed and are painted and strung before every tournament including club singles. They are perpendicular to the tee pad(first half of the fairway) the fairway turns slightly to the left after the second mando.

This Mando is here to protect various sports that play in the field to the left and the houses to the right. It forces a player to follow the intended fairway instead of going wide both left or right. Big rollers to the left can penetrate all the way down to the basket. The double mando's also keep the integrity of the par 4 label.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2012, 04:40 PM
1978 1978 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denny ritner View Post
looks like a nice hole. i can see that the first mando prevents cutting the corner through the woods. i don't understand the need for the double mando, though. it looks like the hole has got sufficient challenge and the DM looks gimmicky, imo.
Agree. Second mando is silly, without looking at the hole in person.
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2012, 11:10 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
To me, a "double" mandatory is a single mandatory "obstacle" (which could be composed of multiple objects) where there is a restriction to not go left or right of the mando objects.

What you have pictured there should be considered two separate single mandatories, unless specifically marked.

(2) If no line is marked, the mandatory line is defined as a straight line through the mandatory, perpendicular to the line from the tee to the mandatory.

To me, a true double mandatory needs to be identified as such, and I've honestly never seen one outside of a tournament procedure where they're usually pretty explicit about those sort of things. Not being explicit is going to lead to a lot of ambiguity.

In short, I'd use the rule above for each mandatory object instead of one referring to both of them.

Agree. A "double mandatory" is when the disc must pass between them or, if both a not left/right, then the way it is defined. It cannot be a "double mando" if (by definition) a disc can "make" one mando and "miss" the other.

We have a couple holes around here that TDs will sometimes label as "triple mandatory" for tournaments. That is, left & right, like the pictures, plus a string line across those trees about 15 ft up, where you must also cross below.

But two mandos is not equal to a double mando
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  #15  
Old 02-01-2012, 03:42 AM
bombmk bombmk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
To me, a true double mandatory needs to be identified as such, and I've honestly never seen one outside of a tournament procedure where they're usually pretty explicit about those sort of things. Not being explicit is going to lead to a lot of ambiguity.

In short, I'd use the rule above for each mandatory object instead of one referring to both of them.
Basically this. If it is not marked _specifically_ as a "double mandatory" I would play and judge it as two separate mandatories.

And yeah, you have an actual double mandatory and the lines are not marked, you can have the described situation. Theres not a decent alternative to that, that I can see.
(Although I would question the sanity in designating the described layout as a double mandatory.)
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2012, 03:57 AM
bombmk bombmk is offline
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One more thing: The described situation in the OP is also possible even for two normal mandatories if the mandatories are after a turn on a hole, as their mandatory lines, if not marked/indicated, are perpendicular to the line to/from the tee. Take dobbins66's diagram and place to separate mandatories opposite from each other just after the turn at the bottom. The mandatory lines would be relatively unintuitive and could create a situation comparable to the situation in the OP (though not the exact same).

I think the lesson is that mandoes without a specified line sucks.
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2012, 11:16 AM
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atl scott atl scott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Scott brought this up (I think) as he got thinking about hole 14 at Nevin.
This was the hole that brought the dilemma to mind. When I played it I landed where the "O" is in my diagram in the OP. I was playing for money and convinced my group to let me unwind (although they didn't really believe me about the rule and I had no rulebook *feels ashamed*). I ended up with a 30' par putt that I missed.
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  #18  
Old 02-01-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmk View Post
I think the lesson is that mandoes without a specified line sucks.
Exactly!
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  #19  
Old 02-01-2012, 11:43 AM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Here might be a scenario where a multiple mandatory obstacle might be applicable.

Herman Hill Park, Wichita, KS, Holes 6 & 7. Four trees parallel to both fairways marked as mandatories (only set up this way for tournaments) to keep players on both holes out of the other fairway. They have generally placed some flags out here and have marked drop zones at each tree, but I can never recall them fully stringing it off.



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Say your drive passes to the correct side of some of the trees, crosses the line between them, but in a forward sense has not yet reached the point of the next tree. We've called that a missed mandatory, and you took your drop back at the last tree that you legally passed.
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  #20  
Old 02-01-2012, 11:47 AM
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That's a strange (and possibly incorrect) method of using mandos. Seems like an OB line would be the way to go.

edit: and leave the last mando for each hole in play.
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