#1  
Old 07-25-2016, 09:52 PM
BrotherDave's Avatar
BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NC
Years Playing: 9.1
Courses Played: 129
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 12,526
Default Tone Pole/object course design vs baskets

Say you're tasked with designing a tone pole (or object) course. What do's and don't's would you have as opposed to a conventional course with baskets? Obviously some universal don't's like throwing over roads, close proximity to ball fields, etc but are there any wrinkles that are different?

For example, do par 4's and par 5's have the same appeal on a tone pole course? Yea or nay on blind shots? Would open holes be preferable since the targets don't stand out as much?

Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-18-2016, 11:17 AM
BuzzSharpe BuzzSharpe is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Climax, NC
Years Playing: 46.1
Courses Played: 69
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 193
Default

Of course, the primary positive about tone pole/object targets versus baskets is the tremendous cost savings. Whether you use commercially manufactured or homemade tone poles, painted wooden posts or PVC pipe attached to metal rods, like the original targets at Cedarock and Wellspring, you will save thousands of dollars, while still achieving the basic goal of installing a new disc golf course.
Tone poles or other similar targets should also require much less installation preparation and production, resulting in less negative environmental impact.
I don't see any particularly different 'wrinkles' that would mandate differentiating design objectives. Par 4's and 5's and blind shots should work as well, regardless of target type. Perhaps the one big consideration would be to have poles or posts of sufficient diameter, with or without straight down chains, like Yadkinville, to make the target size comparable to baskets. As for visibility, particularly in the woods, shiny metallic silver tone poles should be as easily seeable as any non-DisCatcher basket. Bright white paint, like at Cedarock/ Wellspring, or orange, like at Yadkinville Outback would make the targets easy to spot among the trees, as well as out in the open.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-18-2016, 11:27 AM
Aim For The Chains's Avatar
Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
FROLF OFF!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MINNESOTA
Years Playing: 8.3
Courses Played: 121
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 14,077
Default

biggest difference is all the putting area in which to hole out being removed with a pole/tone hole. not sure exact increase in difficulty but surely has to be some. the "easy par 3" might play more like a true par 3.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-18-2016, 12:34 PM
Cgkdisc's Avatar
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 27.4
Courses Played: 631
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 9,968
Default

Post targets can produce lower scores versus baskets depending on the diameter. A 6" diameter post with a 22" painted area (height of basket target zone) is a bigger target than a basket and you never have cut thrus or bounce outs. I think we calculated one time that a 4" diameter post was about the closest match to a basket's holing out ability.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-18-2016, 12:57 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 12.3
Courses Played: 208
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,352
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Post targets can produce lower scores versus baskets depending on the diameter. A 6" diameter post with a 22" painted area (height of basket target zone) is a bigger target than a basket and you never have cut thrus or bounce outs. I think we calculated one time that a 4" diameter post was about the closest match to a basket's holing out ability.
Interesting... so if I'm interpreting that correctly, that basically translates to "the sweet spot for a typical basket is about 4" wide diameter around the pole." Obviously, the sweet spot doesn't extend out to the full diameter of the chains, but it certainly seems bigger than 4". That's just my gut feeling based on observation. I assume Chuck's statement is based on some manner of empirical data.

Seems like Aim thinks it's harder to putt out on a post than a basket.
Sorry for the thread drift Dave... I realize that's not really course design related. Just found the comment intriguing.

Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 08-18-2016 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:06 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 12.3
Courses Played: 208
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,352
Default

As for the design aspect, having played a few post courses, I suggest keeping the number of holes with blind approaches fairly low.

While I think they make for a more interesting round, it can be hard to tell if you've actually holed out on a 150-180 footer around a blind corner, especially if there's thick brush between your lie and the pole, and/or any substantial background or road noise near by. All you know is it looked like it had a chance when it left your field of vision, and it's lying pretty close to the post... but did you actually hit it, or merely park it?

To that end, objects that really ring would be preferable.

Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 08-18-2016 at 01:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:06 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 10.1
Courses Played: 166
Posts: 10,059
Default

You can hang put tone poles higher and not have to worry about retrieval. The only issue with blind tones is that you would them loud enough to hear an ace or whatnot.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:12 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 10.1
Courses Played: 166
Posts: 10,059
Default

Also death putts may not sit, so they may become made death putt roll-a-ways.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:16 PM
Cgkdisc's Avatar
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 27.4
Courses Played: 631
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 9,968
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
Interesting... so if I'm interpreting that correctly, that basically translates to "the sweet spot for a typical basket is about 4" wide diameter around the pole." Obviously, the sweet spot doesn't extend out to the full diameter of the chains, but it certainly seems bigger than 4". That's just my gut feeling based on observation. I assume Chuck's statement is based on some manner of empirical data.

Seems like Aim is thinking it's harder to putt out on a post than a basket.
Sorry for the thread drift Dave... I realize that's not really course design related. Just found the comment intriguing.
If you think of a disc flying level, the "sweet spot is about 4" plus the 21cm width of the disc which totals 12.3 inches or 31cm. The chain support width ranges between 53-60cm with the width of the outer chain envelope at the top ranging from 50-57cm. That leaves only 10-13cm of chains near the top to stop the outer half of the disc thrown at the far edge of the sweet spot calculated above. Essentially, the width of the outer chains at the top is within +/- 1-2cm of the width of one disc on either side of the pipe plus 4" in-between them.
Reply With Quote
 

  #10  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:17 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 12.3
Courses Played: 208
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,352
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Also death putts may not sit, so they may become made death putt roll-a-ways.
Hitting a big putt, and still having to walk down a hill to retrieve your putter, and then back up? That's just wrong!

Variation on that theme: Is it OK to have death putt with rollaway potential as long as the downhill follows the flow to next tee?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.