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Old 08-24-2012, 11:34 PM
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Penal Design

Just read a little bit about Pine Valley Golf Course in NJ. They mentioned that it is the perfect example of Penal Design. Penal being a course that penalizes bad shots as opposed to a forgiving course. They also mentioned that the course was one of the most beautiful places on Earth.

This got me thinking about a well designed Penal Design for disc golf. DG is different than ball golf but it's still golf and we want to penalize bad shots and reward good shots. Maintaining scenery is also important.

So I am curious what we consider to be excellent Penal Design.

Contrived yellow rope OOB that just adds strokes: Ugly and clumsy..Nope not very creative and simply adding circles isn't really golf to me...I am looking at you Winthrop
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=322

Lakes/Ponds Water with disc loss possibility: Pretty but Nope who wants to lose your best driver...think the Memorial/Fountain Hills...and then you are doomed the rest of your round
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=616

Streams: scenic yes and Getting better but again we are simply adding a circle but you can get your disc back...I am looking at you Wolfe Woods
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course...d=3199&mode=ci

Thick schule underbrush: Hideous to look at and gives possibility of disc loss...also in some places the rough is so thick you can't even throw into it/hard to believe but sometimes you don't get into much trouble as theres a wall of vines/hard bushes etc that kick you back into the fairway...strange but true...I am looking at you North Carolina

Thorns: let's not even pretend they have any merit on a dg course...looking at you Giles Run
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2473

2M trees: think Seneca walls of cedars and pines that gobble up discs and add to your card
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=192

Too steep drop-offs: cliffs etc that turn a not so bad shot into a handful of extra strokes and require a descent back down and back up a mountain...silly I am looking at u Diamond X

I think some of the above are good but I think we need to truly address how we penalize players

I am envisioning clusters of trees with minimal underbrush where disc retrieval is possible...there is no circle on your card..and you are forced to work your way back onto and up the fairway from an unfavorable lie.

I envision a clear fairway through woods but lined with mature and not so mature trees that will penalize and force creativity and decision-making. If you stay on the fairway you are going to do well...if you are off the fairway there is no oob to add strokes, no gold ropes, no water, no thorns, no impenetratable underbrush, no vines, no lakes, .......you are left with the purest golf....make a shot and utilize your creativity or pitch out.

I will admit it would take the proper piece of land to do this but I am hopeful it is out there somewhere.

I am poking at some of the most popular places on Earth to play DG with my examples and there's merit in all of those types of penalty but I am trying to get a discussion going about how to penalize players with design.

In the mid atlantic region there is a general hatred of mandatories and oob and many of the best course designers are striving to make courses straightforward with the the only obstacle being getting from the tee to the basket in as few strokes as possible.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=192

A round at Iron Hill with a score of 85 will consist of 85 throws unlike other places where the scorecard consists on non throw penalties etc....

I am basically trying to prompt a discussion about PENAL design......rip my opinions to shreds but give me your concepts as well

Thanks
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:36 PM
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It's shaped like a falic symbol?
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerube View Post
It's shaped like a falic symbol?
I knew it...please don't destroy my thread Prerube...please
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:39 PM
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sorry, late night humor.

I am not a fan of the dumb yellow rope. Winthrop is an entirely different course with out the ropes and I think that is a flaw in the design.

Also Giles has removed as many thorns as they were allowed, but I still do not play there.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:40 PM
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can a mod change the thread title for me...perhaps Punishing Design or something that will keep the adolescents away
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerube View Post
sorry, late night humor.

I am not a fan of the dumb yellow rope. Winthrop is an entirely different course with out the ropes and I think that is a flaw in the design.
I tend to think gold ropes are lazy....although I have never played there. To me it just lacks the challenge of line shaping and just rewards luck or placement golf too much
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:43 PM
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What do you think about Hotshots, with abandoned road OB coming into play on nearly every hole?
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:48 PM
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I thought this thread was about Giles Run, you know being part of the penal system and all.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerube View Post
What do you think about Hotshots, with abandoned road OB coming into play on nearly every hole?
never played it but watched the domination video

interesting point

generally it's ugly...otherwise the course looks pretty

(I am thinking of the penultimate here...I am sure I'd enjoy Hot Shots...it looks fun)

I think theres a point where too many potential circles starts to creep into gimmick territory
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:53 PM
Peterb Peterb is offline
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I understand where you're coming from Opti, but unfortunately we traditionally get permission to use a piece of land and what is there is what is there. In other words, we don't have the luxury to construct the perfect course. Moreover, these parks often come with sometimes serious constraints, like avoiding other existing park users or environmental concerns.

To me, much of the awesomeness that is disc golf is playing what's there, no matter how punitive. That doesn't mean I don't love playing on manicured golf courses but I appreciate how dynamic the game is. Given enough space, you can play almost anywhere. Even chicken coops.
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