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Old 12-12-2011, 04:26 PM
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SirRaph SirRaph is offline
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Pred 101: PLH, Color, Old Mold vs. New Mold, Z, X, ESP and FLX Plastics

As a fan of the Predator, I wanted to create this thread both to act and an ambassador for the mold, and to clear up and myths/misunderstandings related to it.

So many of the newest discs on the market claim to be a "faster Teebird". I've tried virtually every disc on the market, and have found a beat up old Predator to be the most accurate comparison.
Where a beat Pred shines over other discs of that type, is that it never gets to the point where it flips over. PDs, Strikers, Avengers, etc. all do. So while it may take some time to get a Pred into that sweet sweet honey spot, it never leaves that spot until you either lose it or break it.

Old Mold: What is it and how do I find it?

What it is -- When the Predator was first approved by the PDGA in May of 2002, the mold was a bit different. They changed the mold to the "New Mold" some 2-4 years later, from what I've collected.

Old mold Preds are generally thought to be less overstable. Using Innova's rating system, the old mold Preds are somewhere around 9/4/0/3 (speed/glide/HSS/LSS). They're still overstable, but they're not quite as meaty as the newer Preds.

Many people talk about PLH (parting line height). As you can see from the pics below, the PLH on Old Mold Preds is very similar to New Molds. The difference, instead, is the lower section of the wing. There is a slight difference in the scoop, or angle at which the wing terminates at its base.

New Mold vs. Old Mold (First Run Z)


New Mold is on top of the first pic, and on the right side of second pic.
Notice the difference in the wings?

How do I find an Old Mold Pred?
Look for the older stamp Preds. Both of the discs below are old stamps:


I've heard that the DGA Tsunami is an Old Mold Pred
Well...yes and no. Tsunamis come in two plastics - Proline and SP (same as Discraft's ESP plastic and Sparkle Z, respectively). Proline Tsunamis are exactly the same mold/flight as First Run ESP Predators, which are old mold Preds. SP Tsunamis, however, look to be the same mold, but the finished product, and its flight characteristics, are very different.

This is a PLH comparison between a white/clear SP Tsunami and a First Run Z Pred:


The PLH is dramatically different. And as a result, the Tsunami flies drastically more overstable.

What about Predators in plastics other than Z?

ESP Plastic: First run ESP Preds are old mold, and fly awesome. They beat more quickly than Z plastic, but can be beat into a slight flippiness. Newer ESP Preds are great as well, just slightly more overstable.

FLX Plastic: I've thrown a handful of them, and they're all PREPOSTEROUSLY overstable. They're obviously nice for spike hyzers and shots where you don't want much skip.

Elite X Plastic: X Preds are out of production. They're not very expensive, generally under $20. They are also old mold. The two I have are only slightly beat, and are both very straight with a very late fade.

I'm looking for a Predator that flies like _________, what should I look for?

These are the characteristics that I have found to hold true:

Weight: Max weight (175g) is more overstable than lighter weights (lightest I've found in Z plastic is 165g)
Dome: Flatter Preds are more overstable than Domey Preds.
Color: Red and Pink are the most overstable, yellow and green and the least. Clear/Translucent Z Preds are more overstable than opaque Preds.


Hope this helps someone!
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:28 PM
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juju juju is online now
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This pred thread delivers, nice work!
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:31 PM
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sugarnot sugarnot is offline
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and ill ask the million dollar question...willing to part with that first run z pred? ive been on the look out for one or two
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:33 PM
lavon_andy lavon_andy is offline
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so the closest to a "longer teebird" would be a proline tsunami or an old mold predator?

I ask because I'm thinking of getting something new to go on top of my teebird set up now and don't want to blow $$ on OOP (old run) plastic much less try to find more if I lose it.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:35 PM
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Very nice post about one of the best discs out there!
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:36 PM
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pspunch pspunch is offline
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great thread! thank you
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:42 PM
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SirRaph SirRaph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavon_andy View Post
so the closest to a "longer teebird" would be a proline tsunami or an old mold predator?

I ask because I'm thinking of getting something new to go on top of my teebird set up now and don't want to blow $$ on OOP (old run) plastic much less try to find more if I lose it.
Proline Tsunami, ESP First Run Pred, or yellow opaque lightweight Z Preds are the closest I've found out of the box. Each of them will need to be beat in for a while to really hit that spot.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:43 PM
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SirRaph SirRaph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarnot View Post
and ill ask the million dollar question...willing to part with that first run z pred? ive been on the look out for one or two
sorry, that's being locked away in the collector's bin. Got it on eBay for $24
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:43 PM
lavon_andy lavon_andy is offline
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Sweetness, thanks for the info. I found somewhere to pick up proline tsunamis for 10.95 a pop so I know what I'm getting myself for christmas.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:46 PM
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MNcyclone MNcyclone is offline
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I have a freakishly understable 164g Flx-pred. I got a new one and it isn't freakish, but definitely not overstable. Any advice for getting a light weight but still overstable flx-pred?
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