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Old 07-22-2014, 01:26 PM
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optidiscic optidiscic is offline
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Controversial way to get players to move up

Been thinking about this for awhile and wonder what everyone thinks

If all pros got a disc in their players pack just like the Ams (gasp) I hypothesize that the amount of borderline Ams who moved up to play against better players because at least they get something would actually offset the cost of giving away the extra plastic.

Of course theres gonna be the bitchy pros who will say I'd take the money wasted on plastic over the increased field but seriously do the math
typical tourney
20 pros x $40 entry = $800
20 pros x $8 a disc wholesale= $160
40 entry fee X 20 pros= $800
800-160=640
if just 5 borderline ams move up (conservative)
25 pros x $8 a disc wholesale=$200
25 pros x $40 entry=$1,000
$1,000 - $200= $800

so basically if you can get anymore than 1/4 to play up because you are offering a disc/players pack you are increasing the pro field and purse

I think this is the way to end bagging and it entices and rewards the lower pros and borderline ams for playing up



I fear that ingrained stupid hero worship adherence to the top pro in each region bitching about lower pros getting something will never allow this common sense approach to work
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:35 PM
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bradharris bradharris is online now
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This was tried at the Borderland Spring Fling recently. The Open entry fee was $10 for a 2-day event. There was an added option to get a players pack for another $10 or buy-in to the prize pool for an additional amount (can't remember the exact total).

The am divisions were all trophy-only with a players pack for $20.

So two major incentives for playing am (cost and prizes) were gone. A few people played up, but most players stayed in the division where they felt comfortable.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:39 PM
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optidiscic optidiscic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
This was tried at the Borderland Spring Fling recently. The Open entry fee was $10 for a 2-day event. There was an added option to get a players pack for another $10 or buy-in to the prize pool for an additional amount (can't remember the exact total).

The am divisions were all trophy-only with a players pack for $20.

So two major incentives for playing am (cost and prizes) were gone. A few people played up, but most players stayed in the division where they felt comfortable.
well thats not exactly the same thing
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optidiscic View Post
well thats not exactly the same thing
It's not exactly the same thing, but actually takes it a step farther. Your proposal is to just give pros a player's pack to encourage ams to step up. The Spring Fling took it a step further by reducing the Open entry fee, and taking all prizes away from the am divisions aside from a single trophy for the winner. It didn't grow the pro field by very much.

I've seen plenty of events where the pros get the same disc as the ams. It doesn't tend to encourage borderline ams to make the move.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:01 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Would not make an iota of difference. Simply having all entry fees be the same would be more effective.

I am more of the mind that the game would be better off if almost no ams turned pro. Steady Ed set the whole thing up ass-backwards and it has never recovered.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:08 PM
gdub58 gdub58 is offline
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Not sure what problem you are trying to solve - are there really that many pros bagging in advanced? I mean, if you have ever accepted cash and are rated highly enough (>970) to be even marginally competitive in Open you can't play in Advanced anyway. Aren't most of the bagging complaints about those in Intermediate and Rec?

And, if you are trying to incent these 950 rated players (who generally have no business in Open in the first place) to play up by giving them a disc, wouldn't they stay in Advanced where they get the same disc and have a much better chance of winning even more discs?

Maybe I'm too dense to get your logic...

IMO two improvements to tournaments:
- Fewer divisions offered. Not fewer overall, but fewer in any given tournament.
- You play in the division your rating indicates; no exceptions. Give TDs some discretion to make Open 970+, 950+, whatever, and if you don't have a rating you either play in Open or a separate "no rating" division that is trophy only with an enhanced player's pack. If you want to play in a higher division, get better - that should be motivation enough.

While I realize this will rob Open of some of the "dead money", Open should have a shallower payout than other divisions in most tournaments anyhow.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdub58 View Post
Aren't most of the bagging complaints pretty much nothing more than hot air once you do some results analysis and realize nearly all of the so-called "baggers" are actually in their ratings appropriate division?
FTFY
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:22 PM
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Stardoggy Stardoggy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdub58 View Post

IMO two improvements to tournaments:
- Fewer divisions offered. Not fewer overall, but fewer in any given tournament.
- You play in the division your rating indicates; no exceptions. Give TDs some discretion to make Open 970+, 950+, whatever, and if you don't have a rating you either play in Open or a separate "no rating" division that is trophy only with an enhanced player's pack. If you want to play in a higher division, get better - that should be motivation enough.
Right on. If we're going to have a ratings system, we should use the damn thing.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:37 PM
bluTDI09 bluTDI09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdub58 View Post
Not sure what problem you are trying to solve - are there really that many pros bagging in advanced? I mean, if you have ever accepted cash and are rated highly enough (>970) to be even marginally competitive in Open you can't play in Advanced anyway. Aren't most of the bagging complaints about those in Intermediate and Rec?

And, if you are trying to incent these 950 rated players (who generally have no business in Open in the first place) to play up by giving them a disc, wouldn't they stay in Advanced where they get the same disc and have a much better chance of winning even more discs?

Maybe I'm too dense to get your logic...

IMO two improvements to tournaments:
- Fewer divisions offered. Not fewer overall, but fewer in any given tournament.
- You play in the division your rating indicates; no exceptions. Give TDs some discretion to make Open 970+, 950+, whatever, and if you don't have a rating you either play in Open or a separate "no rating" division that is trophy only with an enhanced player's pack. If you want to play in a higher division, get better - that should be motivation enough.

While I realize this will rob Open of some of the "dead money", Open should have a shallower payout than other divisions in most tournaments anyhow.
Only slightly off topic and I realize this was probably not your point, but there is no such thing as bagging advanced. Advanced is not a ratings protected division.
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  #10  
Old 07-22-2014, 03:08 PM
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AndyJB AndyJB is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluTDI09 View Post
Only slightly off topic and I realize this was probably not your point, but there is no such thing as bagging advanced. Advanced is not a ratings protected division.
THANK YOU

You cannot force someone to move into Open. If someone wants to remain an Amateur, then that is the decision of the individual. There is absolutely no reason to force anyone to move up.

What tournaments is the OP playing that is swamped with "borderline ams" in the Advanced division? Every region I've played in has has the exact opposite problem: e.g. Open is littered with 950 and lower rated players who stand no chance against the top guys who win every event.

Once again, DGCR, in its massive disconnect with the real world, is creating a solution (and a logically flawed one, at that) to a problem that simply does not exist.

Sandbagging, by and large, is nothing more than sour grapes from someone who got beat by a marginally better player.
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