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Old 01-08-2017, 02:27 AM
HERB brooks HERB brooks is online now
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Default Getting Existential With Midrange Discs

Well maybe not existential exactly... but I'm looking to have a thread about the purpose of midrange discs.

One common theme throughout my disc golf career has been a struggle to throw midrange discs. I started playing disc golf again regularly around March 2015, after not playing since one summer in my childhood (maybe 1998 or 99 don't really remember). I had a Roc and Cobra back then, didn't throw either particularly well, but I didn't throw anything particularly well back then. Since I picked the game back up I've tried several mids (Buzz, Emac Truth, Tursas, Wasp, and Panther are ok discs but nothing has stuck). Right now I'm using faster putters and slower fairways to cover midrange distances. I am using the winter and early spring to try some new things in my bag and am quite open to using a midrange again even ones I've tried before. I'm not a huge mold minimalist but I don't see myself ever having more than 2 midrange molds.

Please don't just tell me to get the disc/discs of your choice. I'm not necessarily looking for disc suggestions but rather others opinions and experiences. If you have suggestions of a good midrange or want to talk about what you are bagging and want to share, that's welcome and encouraged, but explain what makes it something thats essential to your game. Ideally this will be more philosophical than a I use disc X for Y and Z type of shots thread.

I'm looking to hear others thoughts about the purpose of mids, roles they should fill in the bag, how they are to be used most effectively, what makes a good workhorse, etc... Can fast putters and slow fairways cover midrange territory or is that too big a gap in a lineup? What lines are best suited for midrange? Thoughts about smaller diameter midrange vs large...What do mold minimalists look for? What do guys that like specific mold for specific shots look for?
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:43 AM
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DesertFox DesertFox is offline
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The best way to find out what each class of discs do for your game is to not carry them at all. Only when you come across a situation where you wish you had an X class disc do you know if you need it. If you can get most of the time without such and such and manage to score well, then you dont really need it. Ive done this myself many times where i didnt carry driving putters, mids, fast drivers and now I know what I do and do not need for a given round.

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Old 01-08-2017, 02:50 AM
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I'll try to be as philosophical as possible.

First, historical: back in the day when the Leopard was a long-range driver, and the Gazelle, Eagle and Teebirds were drivers, the mids truly were the middle-range discs. Then the Valkryie and other faster drivers began coming out. Now, drivers go as high as speed 13, 14, etc. (without getting into the weeds on relative numbers), and the "mids" aren't really in the middle anymore.

Mids back in the day were mostly speed 4 or so, a few were speed 3. Then came innovations and renovations, and more mids came out with speed 5 designations. Again, don't want to get in the weeds on these speeds, but the Mako3 became a faster Mako, the VCobra a faster Cobra, the Roc3 a faster Roc, and so on and so forth.

We now see a new niche coming out, the "approach"... these are the fast putters that are now in that speed 3-4 category that once housed mids. Discs like the Prodigy A-Series, the Innova Colt, Stud and Mirage, etc.

And putters have become faster in their own right, at least some of them.

Sooo, where does that leave us now. You (OP) remarked that people go from putters to fairway drivers without using mids, and that can and does happen... and it might be the best thing for some. IMHO, it depends partly on how far one throws, partly on what courses one regularly plays, and partly personal preference and what one is comfortable with. And as one gets better as a DG player, the strategies and the discs might change, as well.

For me, I use mids for throws that would be at or beyond the distance I can throw putters. Lets say I have a 220 ft. throw to the basket over level ground. I can get a putter there, with a (near) full power throw. I can get my Star Stud there with a hard throw. But I can throw a good controlled shot without feeling like I have to rip it by using the Mako3, or Buzzz, or Panther (discs I carry; hence saying them by name. Others may use different discs, of course.). Some would rather throw that putter, and go to the fairway drivers for longer shots, and that's fine by me.

There are some courses in my area that I play that I can leave the mids at home and not miss them. These are open, pitch-and-putt courses where I drive with the driver and then go for the Stud/Mirage or even the P2. Then there's more technical courses where having a mid for a nice controlled shot is more needed.

So your game on your courses will have to decide if putter-to-fairway-driver works best, or if you need a mid. In closing, I'll just say that IMHO an overstable mid for approaches, utility shots and wind-fighting would be an extremely valuable addition to one's game no matter what overall strategy you apply in making up your bag.

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Old 01-08-2017, 03:03 AM
HERB brooks HERB brooks is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertFox View Post
The best way to find out what each class of discs do for your game is to not carry them at all. Only when you come across a situation where you wish you had an X class disc do you know if you need it. If you can get most of the time without such and such and manage to score well, then you dont really need it. Ive done this myself many times where i didnt carry driving putters, mids, fast drivers and now I know what I do and do not need for a given round.
Thats pretty much what I did early last spring and got rid of the midranges i had in the bag. I'm throwing farther now compared to then and my backhand is getting much better, my FH is still better. So I feel like now that I can throw the fairways farther out I'm getting more of a gap between them and my throwing putters (in my case Wizards and Pigs). I can give the putters more gas, anyhzer, height, etc... to coax out extra distance, but I'm starting to think my needs have changed and want to at least experiment with a few different mid options
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:40 AM
HERB brooks HERB brooks is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
I'll try to be as philosophical as possible.

back in the day when the Leopard was a long-range driver, and the Gazelle, Eagle and Teebirds were drivers, the mids truly were the middle-range discs. Then the Valkryie and other faster drivers began coming out... Mids back in the day were mostly speed 4 or so, a few were speed 3.
From what little I remember the XL and Valkyrie were huge when I was a kid, i only remember speed 4 mids. I only had a handful of discs and only played for that one summer


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
We now see a new niche coming out, the "approach"... these are the fast putters that are now in that speed 3-4 category that once housed mids. Discs like the Prodigy A-Series, the Innova Colt, Stud and Mirage, etc.

And putters have become faster in their own right, at least some of them.
The putters I bag nowadays all are capable of flying far, I find them very consistent from 200-250 and in depending on mold. If I had a bigger arm they would still be viable for longer distances, as the Wizard and Pig are fast putters (ok maybe not the Magic that would get flippy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
it depends partly on how far one throws, partly on what courses one regularly plays, and partly personal preference and what one is comfortable with. And as one gets better as a DG player, the strategies and the discs might change, as well...

For me, I use mids for throws that would be at or beyond the distance I can throw putters. Lets say I have a 220 ft. throw to the basket over level ground. I can get a putter there, with a (near) full power throw... I can throw a good controlled shot without feeling like I have to rip it by using the Mako3, or Buzzz, or Panther.
I agree that personal preference plays a huge role in bag makeup and disc selection. I have always preferred the feel of putters and fairways over midrange discs but I feel a midrange could potentially be a good tool to help my backhand game. Right now if I have a shot at 260-280' its out of my Wizard range (BH driving putter). I can gas a Pig on a high slight anhyzer FH line to coax just enough distance or back off a fairway FH (any of the 3 i carry depending on situation) and hope i don't accidentally overshoot and leave a long putt. It works the majority of the time but I like to tinker and feel like I prematurely kicked mids this pastspring
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:50 AM
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It looks like the OP is primarily a FH dominant?

If so, an OS mid would be invaluable IMHO- I throw a Buzzz OS-for that shot-upshots and shorter drives- a Gator type would work also?
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Personally I like my mids to be versatile for FH and BH- (true switch hitter here) I like the way the BUZZZ type discs feel for both- So, It's all about personal preference with the feel of the disc- fwiw I can't FH Rocs to save my life

Right now I have 5 mids I am carrying, soon to add a 6th(Compass) or a 7th(beat Roc3) love me some mids! probably because my home courses are tight, wooded, control courses for the most part

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Old 01-08-2017, 08:03 AM
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I dont know where I would be without my Rocs, but I also dont play as many courses as I used to. A lot of it comes down to that. The course closest to my house is short...I use my mids there on four specific holes, which are the longest, off the tee. The next closest course to me is longer but much tighter shots (lots of trees as well as a river going through pretty much the entire course) and there it will vary...sometimes a mid off the tee but sometimes a mid to approach with on the longer holes.

I do bag fast mids (Roc3s, BuzzzOS) primarily, but there are some slower OG Rocs and a Vroc in the mix as well. Ive been playing a long time and the ever so slightly faster mids that offer the same pinpoint precision as their slower progenitors has been a revelation for the game and sport side of disc golf.

TL;DR I think its more dependent on the type of course you play rather than the individual player.

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Old 01-08-2017, 09:26 AM
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It's funny I've been playing very regularly for that past 15 years and I've just begun noticing that I hardly throw my mids anymore. I drive a lot more with my putter on shots where I'd use a mid in the past and most upshots I'll handle with a putter as well. For tree lined tunnel shots with low overheard I'll send out a fairway driver like leopard or Eagle.

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Old 01-08-2017, 09:35 AM
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Mids allow you to throw the same lines as a putter but without the height. I can throw my putters 250+, but to do that they need a lot of height and room to work. On the course Id much rather just disc up to something faster and get the same results on a lower line.

Same with approaches, instead of powering up a putter, just disc up to a mid and get there easily. I dont throw my mids a lot, but when I do they are invaluable

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Old 01-08-2017, 10:32 AM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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I was in a similar spot to what you are describing for a while. My BH form was good enough that I could get a putter near 300, but could t throw a driver much over 350 yet, except for the occasional 400 ft accidental rip. And with mids at just 300-325 I began not feeling they were necessary. Then suddenly things clinched and I got to 400+ consistently with my drivers, 375+ with my fairways and the 300-375 gap was easily filled by somewhat old school, slower midranges. The Yao, Champ Roc and eventually the Bard fit theater spot perfectly.

So for some peopl at certain part of their discing lives, they may superfluous, but overall they are extremely useful.

I looked up a round journal from 2014 at the silvers at Oregon Park; 18!tee shots all with drivers, only threw a mid 2 times.

Played the same course last week; 18!twe shots 1 with a driver, 3 with a putter, 14 with a mid.

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