Bardu's Bag 2012

[BrotherDave]

Originally Posted by Bardu

So how does a panther differ from a comet? That is a midrange with glide that I am already comfortable with.

Just curious does anyone have thoughts on dx teebird and champ teebird vs p-pd and s-pd as far as driver combos go? Keep in mind I am not really throwing all that far. I know I can theoretically a pd further, but I'm not sure by how much, if any. I definitely have better control with teebirds.

I throw an older Champ Panther, kind of flat, and it's definitely not as glidey as a Comet. It's more like a mini-Leo, great for lower lines and quicker like smaller diameter mids are. I'd say the Panther is more of a specialist disc vs a Comet which is a "do everything" disc. I throw mine along side a Nebula as a kind of "power/fast" mid combo to go along with a trio of wide diameter mids I use for line-shaping (Pain/Vector, Axis, and Fuse).

The stability gap b/w the Teebirds and the PDs of their respective plastics is probably the biggest difference, i.e.:
Champ TB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DX TB

vs

S-PD>>>>>>>>P-PD

I'd probably play around with various DX TBs as your main drivers and maybe a P-PD as a distance driver.

[Bardu]

Thanks, BrotherDave. Like I said in the opening post, I am trying to stick to as few molds as possible so that I can learn to throw all different shots with them. Right now, I still am not even throwing a Comet because I can replicate the lines I can get off a Comet with my most beat Roc. And I am definately looking for "do-everything" kind of discs.

Well thanks, that helps with my driver question. I took all my drivers out to the course a couple of days ago and my most beat Teebird was turning on me like crazy, as was my DX Leopard. This is new to me, I have always had drivers fade out. My form must be developing from all the practice with the Rocs. I'll have to expirement with slight hyzers with those discs. I have more DX Teebirds waiting that are fresh and stable so I will start breaking those in as well.

I am not so sure that there is enough separation in the distances I am throwing my discs yet for me start throwing a fairway and a distance driver. When I was out yestereday, my Rocs were regularly reaching just as far as my Teebird or PD. There aren't any excessively long holes on the courses I regularly play.
I am also trying to keep throw low speed stuff until I develop good form. I really just want to start working with a driver so that I have one that I am comfortable with. I am looking for one that will still teach me to throw correctly and also one that will be a good driver for me long term once I have invested alot of time in it. All this seems to steer my towards the Teebird. So you don't think it would be worth it to pick up a Champion one at this point?

[Bardu]

Quick update: Did some more field work with the Teebirds, adjusting for a slight hyzer angle and keeping the nose down, and they were flying beautifully. Very controlled, alot of glide, predictable fade depending on the amount of height, hyzer, and how beat the disc was. I have found my short term and long term driver! They were consistently going further than my Rocs.

Again, would it be worth it to pick up a Champion TB? I imagine it would take a while to beat a champ disc in and I would like to start the process sooner than latter.

Also, I was planning on picking up a Pro Leopard, as GLong suggested. What kind of shots would I use that for/how much overlap would there be compared to a beat DX TeeBird?

[BrotherDave]

Yeah, I'd just stick with DX Teebirds if you're really wanting to get the form down, they're really good discs and they're easily accessible. A Champ TB might be nice to have on holes with wind or where you don't want to risk turning over a DX TB and risk losing it.

As for the Leo question, I don't know if you'd really need one if you had a Teebird beat in enough. It would be nice for lower power control shots b/c they aren't as fast as TBs but I dunno, that's a really personal situation. Some people like pairing TBs with Leos and some people like throwing TBs only in wear stages.

For schnitzengiggles, I'll throw out two other good "do everything" drivers, the Cyclone and the JLS.

[Bardu]

Thanks for the advice! Perhaps i should get a few different weights to work with. Right now I have 165 and 166. I have a friend who's going to sell me his old school teebirds which I think is 170. Between rocs and teebirds, I am finally understanding what a line shaping disc is.

[Crazy Runner Guy]

Originally Posted by BrotherDave

For schnitzengiggles, I'll throw out two other good "do everything" drivers, the Cyclone and the JLS.

Big Cyclone fan here. If you like the beaded feel of your Rocs, Cyclones would be right up your alley in the fairway driver slot. They will be just slightly more overstable than your Teebirds and you should also be able to carry multiples of them in different stages of wear. I carry two - a stable 174 Elite Pro (likely plastic) and a slightly overstable 175 Tourney Pro. I prefer the latter because it has a better grip. The more durable plastics will hold their stability longer, hence mine are as stable as as fresh Teebird. They are currently in D, X and ESP plastics.

If you like the feel of the Cyclones but don't like your plastic options, you could also try a Gazelle (DX or Star options, latter only from factory store). Innova designed the Gazelle off of the Cyclone, so they are almost one and the same.

I admire what you're doing with mold minimizaiton. I am also trying to minimize the number of molds I carry, and I'm at about four right now (sig notwithstanding - I may drop the Comet and/or Gazelle). Now, if I can just find a single fairway driver that I can carry multiples of in different plastics, weights, and stages of wear and have one of multiples throws like a Teebird or Cyclone and another throw like a Firebird, I'll be all set and be where you are at with three molds.

[Bardu]

Nice to see a fellow mold minimalization enthusiast! Thanks for the advice, I've never tried a Cyclone, I will have to next chance I get. Its not so much that I prefer bead to no bead (although I do love my Ions and Rocs), I am mainly looking for as versatile a driver as I can get that will be sensitive to form, and rewarding both in the short and long term.

I have an X Comet that is a really fantastic disc. My most beat Roc can emulate the shots I would use it for (point and shoot mainly) so I prefer to stick with the one mold and really try to learn it.

[BrotherDave]

Crazy Runner Guy is spot on. If you love Rocs, you should try a Cyclone b/c they're the closest thing to a Roc in FW driver form more or less. An ESP and X duo can cover a lot. They're sensitive enough to form in any plastic (except Z, they're awful and glideless in Z hence why they're oop in that). Cyclone, JLS, and Gazelle (and Cheetah), old school, do everything fairway drivers.

[Bardu]

I am still really enjoying my Rocs, definately the best discs in my bag. Throwing 171 DXs at the moment, might wanna start looking into other weights. I'm throwing my 171s about 250 with my effort and stretching them to 280 on max distance lines and really good throws. Think I might wanna play around with 172s? I just love DX plastic, still. I have learned so much about line shaping and different throws.

Teebirds have been kind to me. Mainly using them for shots that are low and straight, they will hold these lines to the ground. Also, higher shots with a nice fade at the end to add some distance. I am throwing mainly a 165 right now. I have to give it a slight hyzer or else it will turn over. I have been considering picking up a Leopard or Cyclone as has been suggested here, but I am pretty broke at the moment.

My main concern right now is actually my putters. I still like my Ions, they are great off the tee, but I really wish I had something slower and in base plastic. I tried Aviars not too long ago, and I really didn't give them that long of a trial. Aren't Aviars, Challengers, and Wizards (and others) going to be awfully similar to Ions anyways though, just in base plastic? Would I be better off trying something more like a lid (as suggested in my last thread) like a Rattler or Birdie? Would these be good long term putters as well as good for teaching my proper form? Any other putter suggestions?

[BrotherDave]

Fun Fact: The Ion was based off of the creator of MVP's favorite putter, the Wizard. So the Wizard is basically a base plastic version of the Ion. Voodoos feel very similarly to old Ions with the smaller beads and Anodes are very similar to beadless Aviars and Warlocks.

I've found use for all three. I use Ions for drives and long approaches, a Summit for anything using a putting stance b/c of the grip, and a Polecat for lots of touch shots and aggressive runs at the basket. One of the nice things about carrying a lid is besides being really good for cleaning up form, they're great for accurate lineshaping when you've got bad footing or have to throw from a standstill.

(one gram of weight isn't going to affect much on the Rocs, throw whatever feels right)