#251  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:56 AM
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barneco barneco is offline
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I agree, and would argue further that increasing that distance just give MORE room for interpretation and ambiguity.

The major problem arises(when deriving our rules from the game of golf) with the fundamental difference that the object in play(the ball) doesn't move until it's struck during the subsequent stroke. Your lie is your lie. "Play it as it lies" is easy to adhere to...the ball simply doesn't move until you hit it again(with limited, specific exceptions).

Once the object in play(the disc) becomes mobile(i.e. you cannot throw a disc with it lying on the ground as you can hit a ball that's lying there), the analogy falls apart. You have to introduce all sorts of artificial constraints(foward-most plant foot, 30cm, LOP, falling putt...all of this wackiness) to try and keep it in line with the "spirit" of the golf rule upon which it's based.

Perhaps we need to just stop trying to apply the golf rule in this case and come up with something more appropriate to our sport.
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  #252  
Old 10-04-2012, 08:59 AM
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dusty5150 dusty5150 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneco View Post
I agree, and would argue further that increasing that distance just give MORE room for interpretation and ambiguity.

The major problem arises(when deriving our rules from the game of golf) with the fundamental difference that the object in play(the ball) doesn't move until it's struck during the subsequent stroke. Your lie is your lie. "Play it as it lies" is easy to adhere to...the ball simply doesn't move until you hit it again(with limited, specific exceptions).

Once the object in play(the disc) becomes mobile(i.e. you cannot throw a disc with it lying on the ground as you can hit a ball that's lying there), the analogy falls apart. You have to introduce all sorts of artificial constraints(foward-most plant foot, 30cm, LOP, falling putt...all of this wackiness) to try and keep it in line with the "spirit" of the golf rule upon which it's based.

Perhaps we need to just stop trying to apply the golf rule in this case and come up with something more appropriate to our sport.
Good post

I have no idea what "something more appropriate to our sport" would be, but I agree with you completely.
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  #253  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:11 AM
garublador garublador is offline
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Originally Posted by blur View Post
20', 10'.. that may be a bit much, but a designated area behind the disc could offer the opportunity to shoot before your lie with follow-through is what I'm talking about.

It just seems that since the sport has become more and more competitive, people are pushing the rules harder too. Therefore rules must become stricter and more defined....

HENCE THIS DISCUSSION where people are allowed to have varying opinions allowing other options to be considered in rulings.
The problem people have with jump putts is that they believe that people are not playing from their lie. They believe they are playing inches from their lie. If you change the rules so you can throw from feet away from your lie then you're making the problem orders of magnitude worse, not better.
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  #254  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:20 AM
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simpletwist simpletwist is offline
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Sorry for jumping late on this, but can someone get me up to speed? Why?

Without knowing why its been done I'm ok with it. Just like any other sport, the rules get redefined. And sometimes a bad new rule, gets overturned down the road.

Still, I'd like to know the reasoning behind the change.
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  #255  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:21 AM
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dusty5150 dusty5150 is offline
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Originally Posted by simpletwist View Post
Sorry for jumping late on this, but can someone get me up to speed? Why?

Without knowing why its been done I'm ok with it. Just like any other sport, the rules get redefined. And sometimes a bad new rule, gets overturned down the road.

Still, I'd like to know the reasoning behind the change.
it's not a change, just an idea for a proposal to the PDGA
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  #256  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:27 AM
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Same question applies. Why?
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  #257  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:31 AM
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dusty5150 dusty5150 is offline
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Same question applies. Why?
its all in this thread, go back and read it.
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  #258  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:31 AM
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pablo.diablo pablo.diablo is offline
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Because it's difficult to distinguish whether people are technically faulting, and many jump-putters push the rule to the extreme by releasing at virtually the same time the plant foot leaves the ground. And it looks goofy.
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  #259  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:36 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpletwist View Post
Same question applies. Why?
Some people have issues with jump-putts and want the rules changed to get rid of them.

The main issue is that jump-putts are often done illegally (under the current rules---some players are leaving the ground before they release), but difficult or impossible to call because it happens so quickly. The reluctance to call rules is a problem in our sport, made moreso by a rule that's difficult-to-call anyway.

Some think the players who jump-putt gain an advantage by doing so, and thus by breaking the rule.

Others dislike jump-putts because they think they make the sport look bad. Others, probably for other reasons.

*

That's the reason for this thread. There was a proposal to change the rules which would effectively eliminate jump-putts. It was just a proposal someone made, not an actual rule change.

*

The rest of this thread is various ideas about changes in the stance rule different people would like to see, and the opinions of others who would not like to see those changes.
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  #260  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:42 AM
DonCasper DonCasper is offline
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Originally Posted by garublador View Post
The problem people have with jump putts is that they believe that people are not playing from their lie. They believe they are playing inches from their lie. If you change the rules so you can throw from feet away from your lie then you're making the problem orders of magnitude worse, not better.
It reduces the chance that someone will be thought of as gaining an unfair advantage by throwing themselves closer to the pin while shooting. Though I see another unfair advantage occurring when people stand as far back as is allowed to shoot just to avoid an obstacle.
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