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Old 05-01-2014, 03:36 PM
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Tenacious EJ Tenacious EJ is offline
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Default Keeley Park, Greensboro, NC

Spoke with Keeley Park's manager, Tony Royal, today after walking around the beautiful park. We spoke for nearly half an hour, and what I heard was pretty exciting, considering. Mr. Royal told me that further projects at the park are stalled due to the current construction of the outer loop around the city, 840. The construction has forced the movement of the high tower power lines that run alongside and through the park. Mr. Royal told me that he wants everything at the park to be "high end," and that he wants it done right, so to keep from tearing down and moving the course due to construction, he's waiting to lay down the course. There is another chunk of land he thinks will be added to the park, which may play a factor as well.

Mr. Royal is clearly enthusiastic about the course, and he wants a nice one. He showed me the current course map, which he didn't design and he doesn't know who did, but he admits he doesn't play and would welcome help in laying out the disc golf course, as the proposed course map is pretty much out of date due to the changes to the park. He also would welcome and appreciate help from the public to help get the course installed. He believes there is room for 18 holes, but again, admits he doesn't know what a course looks like, other than Barber Park, which is probably good, since most of Barber Park's holes are fairly long.

I can tell you there are some low-lying areas in the park, so I don't know where those will fall, but there are also some nice elevation changes as well as the potential for throwing straight under the towers. The park itself is first rate, and once the loop around Greensboro is finished an exit will be opened at the Rankin Mill Rd exit, making it extremely easy to get to the park from 40. I didn't broach the subject of multiple tees and pin placements, but just talking to him it's clear he is behind a course at Keeley. I hope when the time comes we can show up with a good number of volunteers to help build a signature course for Greensboro.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:59 PM
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Incidentally, this is the original park map. It's really hard to see, because the disc golf course is laid out in yellow, but eventually a redesign will be required. The baseball fields cannot be placed where the current design has them due to septic systems underneath. The current plan which has not been laid out, is for the fields to be just right of the maintenance building at the upper right. This is good, because that area where the fields were proposed has some nice elevation to it. Neither the electrical lines nor the proposed loop locations are final.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:38 PM
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Very cool. Make sure those low lying areas don't flood a lot, could be undesirable.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:08 PM
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Great news! The triad could use anouther good course
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:36 PM
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Last I heard they were waiting on the money for phase 2 of the master plan to be released. Also the course on the master plan is just a mock up of where Site Solutions thought the course should go, not what an actual designer might lay out. (There was a thread about this a while back that Adam Caudel posted)

The design can go 2 ways here;
They decide to get the first hack who comes along to layout the course, for free.
or
They let the architect firm they use located in Charlotte (Site Solutions?) to contract out who will do the design, probably Innova and since Parks are notorious for being cheap, probably Russell.

Bonus Comedy option;
I can try and get ahold of the powers that be with Greensboro Parks and Rec and put a bug in their ear that I'd be willing to do the layout, for a nominal fee of course. Of the 2 course projects I had open, one just went in the ground and the other is waiting till sometime this month to see if we got the grant money. I've got a 3rd in the works but I may wait till the fall to work on that layout.
I've walked the Keeley property extensively already over the last few years while waiting and have a good Idea what is out there.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:40 PM
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Hey there s that pesky thread!

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...ad.php?t=11620
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:29 AM
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Yes, I couldn't repost on it or I would have. In any event, due to pretty extensive changes to the land itself that course won't be built. I can tell you the City is cheap and broke, and I seriously doubt they'd pay anyone to design a course for them. For some reason the city council refuses to consider citizens paying for extravagances like the water parks, even at just $1 a head. Free golf is great, but I doubt many would balk at paying $2 to play a great course. The mgr and I are going to meet again when the park layout is finalized, so we can go from there, but for now it's just good to know it's definitely something we can look forward to.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenacious EJ View Post
Yes, I couldn't repost on it or I would have. In any event, due to pretty extensive changes to the land itself that course won't be built. I can tell you the City is cheap and broke, and I seriously doubt they'd pay anyone to design a course for them. For some reason the city council refuses to consider citizens paying for extravagances like the water parks, even at just $1 a head. Free golf is great, but I doubt many would balk at paying $2 to play a great course. The mgr and I are going to meet again when the park layout is finalized, so we can go from there, but for now it's just good to know it's definitely something we can look forward to.

I was kinda hoping I didnt come off snarky in my post. The internet has a way of adding snark.
That being said, the city is cheap but not broke like you think and they do pay people to design park elements. Of course our problem is that everyone thinks they can design a course just because they are a disc golfer. Actually Ive heard that from parks here. "All disc golfers think they are course designers"
I digress.
Most if not all Parks Departments have a set budget which is usually pretty slim except for the years when state grant money is available for major projects. This last fiscal year was such for NC (June-June) and quite a few cities put in bids for a chunk of money. This is what I'm waiting on for the Jamestown course.
On other years city council or the town managers or whomever is in charge of the budget sets the budget for P&R. A fine example was when Lexington City Council approved a budget for 2 disc golf courses for $150k. Now I'm sure your saying that that is way too much money for 2 courses, but it got approved almost unanimously. Of course it got vetoed by the Mayor but still the fact it got that far is an indicator that the money is there if you go about getting it the right way.

So I'm sure your saying "Man 75k for a disc golf course is way too much" Well thats because Parks and Rec was planning on paying the contractors to do the work (as well as holding onto the left over funds for other projects).

I have nothing personal against designing a course for free, but its pretty stupid to ignore the fact that everyone else is getting paid and not me.

10-20% designer fee off a 75k project is $7500-$15000

We need to start getting paid, people!

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Old 05-02-2014, 09:49 AM
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If you want designers to be paid that kind of money then designers need to have a resume built up that would justify the $$. Or maybe the PDGA needs some type of designer program where designers can become accredited by the PDGA or another reputable organization so that parks departments feel comfortable that someone with a clue is doing the work. I know they had a designer conference, and that is a great first step, but there are a lot of unsafe courses getting put in right now.

There are probably very few designers in each state that have a resume which would lead a smart park's department manager to say, "yeah, I'll hand this guy a $10k check.
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:45 PM
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There does need to be a vetting process to weed out all these armchair course designer hacks. On the other hand, that would weed me out of helping to design a better course than what some hacks would put in.

"You get what you pay for" is generally true but I fear that the chance of a park hiring a swindler that does a bad job (Schwartz *cough* *cough*) is just as high as getting a hack to do it for free.

This area needs a collective group of people who know what the hell they are talking about to ally instead of having a bunch of separate hands doing nothing and just complaining.
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