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Old 01-21-2013, 09:48 PM
fasteddy8170 fasteddy8170 is offline
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Getting totally back to basics

Before you watch--I like many others here have hip and weight transfer issues. I am/was a front foot thrower with little hip rotation. I'm learning I'm not much of a "see-do" guy, as I've watched tons of videos on the subject but something still doesn't compute. Throughout 2012 I tried to fix it but I couldn't get it done--in these videos you'll see what I mean. In fact, you'll see me going the opposite route by doing the old reverse pivot. It's all in an effort to see the extremes on what I shouldn't be doing. So, I just have a few simple questions that I'd like answered after you see what I'm doing. I think I learn better reading than watching. And I just wish to concentrate on the hips down. I realize I have some upper body issues too but one thing at a time.

1. When I plant my front foot, should it be pointed 90 degrees away from the target? 80? 110? I ask because I think this is part of my overall problem. Pointing the toe too straight opens the hips and ruins weight transfer, correct?

2. Regarding the front foot, I've just realized recently it shouldn't necessarily be straight out in front of me but out at an angle of like 30 degrees. So, it's almost like I'm throwing across my body, opposite of what a pitcher would be doing, right?

3. With my back leg (right leg since I'm left-handed), should I push with it or not? In fact, if there's anything that has confused me it's been this. Meaning, should the hips just rotate and momentum carry them forward or is there leg force behind it as well? The problem is what the pros say when they're teaching it in slow motion (for example, Dave Feldberg showing weight transfer under some kind of pavilion roof) isn't exactly what they do when they go at full speed. All of them when teaching it at walking speed, talk about thrusting the hips and they end up over their front foot. But, at full speed, those hips come no where close to being over the front foot until the disc is well gone, if ever. So, what is it? And, if I'm pushing, how do I keep from getting my weight all over my front foot and becoming a front foot thrower all over again?

4. What I see in the rudimentary run-ups I did in these videos is that my hips are still opening way too early. Should the hips be thrusting first or turning first? And if it's both at the same time, how do I reach out with my plant foot and keep my butt pointed at the target at the same time? More to the point, does the thrusting/turning of the hips happen before or after the front foot is planted?

5. What can I do from the standstill position to greatly improve my chances of getting good weight transfer when I move to doing an x-step?

I know these sound like simplistic questions that can be answered through videos but I'm discovering I don't learn well that way. Whereas, if it's on paper, I can follow the instructions much more easily. I apologize for the grunting in the videos beforehand. Thank you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib4Ey...QG_aMQ&index=4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NIfY...QG_aMQ&index=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3orNw...QG_aMQ&index=2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHoK...QG_aMQ&index=1
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2013, 10:35 PM
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BionicRib BionicRib is offline
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1. 80 to 90 range
2. more or less yes (30 is good because it keeps your hips loaded)
3. Your hips start everything....when your left heel goes down on the plant you come up on the right toe behind......(that is the weight shift) Its hard to tell on the videos, but it looks like you are on the right track with your standstill.
4. I would say thrusting and turning at the same time
5. Watch how much faster your shoulders turn on your standstill vs. your run ups.......that is what you will learn mostly. Also it helps you with your pull through and weight shift (teachs you not to round). I tell people....standstill first.....then one step.......then 2 then 3. Its tricky and it takes time. I'm not sure how long you've been playing, but throwing by a standstill is a great way to overcome old muscle memory. Learning everything the right way by attempting a 3 step run up right off the bat is too hard for people to figure out. Every move is predicated on the other. If you get one wrong........the rest is not going to happen. Patience is key.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:52 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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^ agreed for the most part. Your throws with steps aren't good, stick with the standstill for faster improvements with the basics of a disc golf throw, instead of a beach frisbee throw. You will need to get much more closed in your stance so your aiming will also change, and get your head over the plant foot at the hit. You want torque and tension from your core(more hip/shoulder turn coiling/loading into the backswing and then an unloading of levers) for more whip of your arm. As far as weight transfer, you want to stay fairly centered in your balance and axis of rotation. Once your weight begins to settle onto the braced front side is when you begin to unload.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:20 PM
fasteddy8170 fasteddy8170 is offline
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This is an update after a week of practicing. In my opinion, it's pretty ugly so far. What I tried to do in the video (and I apologize for the quality) is alternate between standing and a slow xstep so you all see what I'm trying to do. I'm throwing all DX Roc's 175g. Wind is from my 8 o'clock position, fairly hard--you can see the camera shaking. Standstill, I'm getting about 180feet. Slow x step: 220.

Good: getting better hip rotation than before, front foot is rotating on heel, my overall standstill movement is pretty good, distance isn't bad and fairly accurate for standing still.

Bad: overall xstep movement is bad: I lean over way too much, not pulling through straight--I feel rushed in my upper body for some reason even though I'm going slow, left foot looks like it actually moves further forward than my plant foot--when I throw it feels like my plant foot is way out there, then when I see the video it's not far at all.

Still not sure how to marry the standstill motion with the xstep motion. Can't figure out how to stop my upper body from moving forward--I'm leaning forward and I don't even realize it until I watch the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj8wk8UbnS4

Thanks.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:06 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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You have no rhythm and weight transfer and twisting the wrong directions/times. On the x-step you turn backwards, but it doesn't help because you then begin to open before the plant(weight transfer), so you have lost any elastic core torque. You are also completely flat on the rear heel/foot. You want to turn back into the braced rear side(loading) while coming down to plant. Your max reachback position should be as you plant and you should be fully loaded to then uncork. On the standstill it helps to get some rhythm going swinging back and forth a little, and use a backswing. Also note the width of the elbow/arm from the chest on the reachback and the height/balance. Your balance and aiming will change quite a bit.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:15 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Have you tried starting your steps with your hips already turned to 80-90 degrees? By starting the way you do, hips open facing the target, you make it more complicated, you have to combine an unnecessary backwards rotation with your steps. Seems like you could more quickly get the results you want if you simplify.

Go to 1:50 of this video to see Schultz starting with his hips already turned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTD4cITdQtw

When you are testing your pull-through in slow motion before actually throwing, you have the disc at nipple level, and then when you actually throw the disc is passing your torso at navel level or lower. Regardless of what you do with your lower body I think you'll get better results if you keep the disc higher as you pull past your torso.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:24 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Also on the first hole of this video, 4 guys all with different styles, but all of them start with hips already turned to various degrees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5XJF4su-qU

Anthon does a long runup with his hips turned the entire time. Not saying you should have a long runup, just pointing out there is no need to start facing the target.
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2013, 05:48 PM
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Dan Ensor Dan Ensor is offline
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In your first standstill, it looks like your rear foot is backwards, not allowing you to push off of it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:21 PM
fasteddy8170 fasteddy8170 is offline
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First of all, thanks for all of you who have given me some great opinions so far. I'm taking them to heart after blowing off a lot of good advice the last year regarding my technique. This video is what I did today. I don't how a player can go more back to basics than this. And keep in mind I've been playing for about 2 years and I'm an 880 player according to the PDGA. So, practicing like this can be humbling. Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiHc8...QG_aMQ&index=1

I am taking my cues from this video even though I don't think I learn from videos too well. But, I thought Feldberg was more concise than anything I've heard him say to this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOq09T2q54

Trying to get the feel for the weight transfer. Trying to keep my head over my front foot. Trying to keep my head down. Spinning on the heel, which has never been a problem for me. Trying to pull the disc on a line. All the throws are hyzering out, which isn't a surprise since I'm not throwing very hard. I have to be honest, though: I have no idea how what Feldberg explains in the video eventually turns into how he throws a disc, because the two motions look nothing alike. I could say that about any of the pros--how they go about explaining how to throw, and how they actually throw are two things that look nothing alike. My opinion . . . Thanks again.
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  #10  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:38 PM
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BionicRib BionicRib is offline
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Most of the elite players (and I use this term loosely) do things a little differently leading into the throw. Meaning they all start out a little differently here and there, but they all.......(and I'm talking 1020 plus) are in the same position (as far as balance...centers of gravity, hips shoulders etc) when they get to the hit.

You are absolutely correct in how practicing something newer like this (and breaking it down to baby steps) is incredibly humbling and frustrating. It takes time to get rid of old muscle memory and get used to new. If I were you I would speed up what you are doing and not stop when you're about to hit. Just take nice smooth pulls. Concentrate on your acceleration and timing everything else involved on the weight shift. Try it at full speed, then look at some older videos of yourself with a run up. Right off the bat you are going to notice a faster shoulder rotation. Keep at it and don't worry about your accuracy or distance right now........For lack of a better way of saying, you're gonna suck for a lil while. This was what was hard for me the most, but after about 6,7 months it really started coming together. Patience and having a true understanding of what you need to do are two things you need to focus on right now IMO
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