Pro Vs. Avg Joe- Skill Gap

[tomsdiscs]

Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore

Another issue (not sure if it's been touched on yet) is the physical demands of the sport. DG, even at the highest level, is only moderatley physically demanding. It certainly helps to be in good shape, and fit... I'm sure some people at Worlds's game's fell off after a few rounds due to fatigue, but if we had their skill, how many people here would have trouble making it through the schedule.

Now say some folks had Peyton Manning's skill - could pick apart a defense, and put that ball right on the #'s. How many us could take the punishment? Granted, some of that's due to the traininng, conditioning, and medical care these athletes have over a lifetime, but a lot of it comes from the kind of mental toughness (ie.e "heart") it takes for a receiver to go over the middle, or a QB to follow through when he know's he's gonna get flattened, or a MVPeterson to put his shoulder down for that collision instead of going out of bounds. Even if we had their "skills," how many of us would have their "game?"

I think this also contributes to seemingly larger Pro v. Joe gap in other sports.

Disc golf is sending more and more people to the doctor, especially orthopaedic doctors, and for varying reasons. At highly competitive levels it is akin to trying to throw a discuss in the olympics repeatedly throughout the day, and for several days in a row. It puts great stress on the joints and muscles, just ask Nikko, I heard he jacked his back this past year.... It you want to have consistent, controlled distance over 400 feet, as well as consistently smooth control lines under 400 feet, you are going to have to seriously leverage your ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, back, etc. And forget that it has to be performed under all types of conditions and on all types of surfaces, from rubber teepads, to smooth and rough concrete, to stepping into squirrel holes, to playing off ice plant, etc etc etc

[PMcBeth]

Originally Posted by Mabuku1

its working pretty good for me. I really appreciate the opportunity to get to know a little about you.

You to man.

[Scoot_er]

Originally Posted by PMcBeth

I would say a pro football game is similar to a top pro level disc golf course and watching a top pro play... Thats what our sport lacks to show that actual difference.

Yup, that VAST majority of courses are not even close to championship caliber....most AMs can shoot even....but that is because our average course is all par 3s where the 1030 guy will shoot -7 to -12 every round.

[mj20300]

i think i qualify more as an arnold palmer! Might not have Arnie's Army, but i got my fans!!!

It is fun to hsve these debates on here!

[BogeyNoMore]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

How about some real numbers? A 1000 rated and 940 rated player are about 6 throws apart on a typical SSA course in the 49-53 range. The 940 player shoots more than 3 throws above his rating 1 in 6 rounds. The 1000 rated player shoots more than 3 throws worse than their rating 1 in 6 rounds. So the 940 player would beat the 1000 rated player 1 in 36 rounds on average, essentially 3% of the time, playing just one round. Playing a 2-round event, the 940 will rarely beat the 1000 player. That's assuming both players have established stable ratings and the 940 player isn't a new player on the upswing.

Now, the interesting thing for the 940 player (about like me), is that we only lose by 6 throws on average on this type of course. That means we score the same as the 1000 rated player on at least 12 holes. To the outside observer it may not look like there's much difference in skill because it's mostly a missed putt maybe every three holes or a shank every three holes that results in the six throw difference per round.

So the results indicate I may never win. But observing us play, it may not seem like much of a difference.

Originally Posted by Scoot_er

Yup, that VAST majority of courses are not even close to championship caliber....most AMs can shoot even....but that is because our average course is all par 3s where the 1030 guy will shoot -7 to -12 every round.

I think these support what I said in post # 59 of this thread.

[codyroberts18]

I think it also doesn't seem like that big of a gap because the pro's are truly that good and make it look so easy. I know watching Kris Orrick and Matt Orum's course record round at Trace Gold, a par 69 course that will eat the lunch of anyone who is barely off, really made me realize this fact. Not only could they throw 450+ on command, they were deadly accurate, didn't make mistakes, and were making those get out of trouble shots or 35-60 foot birdie/par saves when needed. Have you ever watch a professional sport, and though man that move looks easy, that catch seems doable, I think I could hit that pitch? I have. That's the thing here, they throw so good, that the fairways look easier to navigate than they really are. Not sure how many of you here, I'm assuming a lot, have seen them in person play, but it makes a difference. I know how hard the fairways at trace gold are to navigate because I play there a lot, and there was a double digit under par score there in a tournament round where pressure was on the whole time. I don't see any 950 rated players doing that. The course designer is 988 rated, give or take a few points, and at the time of this particular tournament was 999. He couldn't touch a 16 year old Schusterick, Kris Orrick, or Matt O who all were playing this course for the first time. The difference is great, I just think some of you don't realize, or don't want to realize it.

[Scoot_er]

Originally Posted by mj20300

i think i qualify more as an arnold palmer! Might not have Arnie's Army, but i got my fans!!!

It is fun to hsve these debates on here!

I love your tea!......except that zero-cal BS

[Emoney]

Originally Posted by PMcBeth

I would say a pro football game is similar to a top pro level disc golf course and watching a top pro play... Thats what our sport lacks to show that actual difference.

Hey man, i been reading ur posts and i see u may be getting a little defensive and thats fine, but just remember that these ppl questioning the skill of pro dg players are in the minority and are simply "haters". I just dont wanna see u get baited into some bad comments from these interweb wannabees

[mj20300]

Originally Posted by Scoot_er

I love your tea!......except that zero-cal BS

zero cal? Hell i need the calories!!!!! I would rather it have something fun in it! Arnie might not approve

[tomsdiscs]

Originally Posted by mj20300

i think i qualify more as an arnold palmer! Might not have Arnie's Army, but i got my fans!!!

It is fun to hsve these debates on here!

Michael - you have plenty of fans - you are the hero of Charlotte Disc Golf as evidenced in the first minute of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZBbSH4n2dU