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  #481  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:07 PM
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justactnormal justactnormal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bholy08 View Post
The whole point is that this huge gap is sometimes unnoticeable due to easy courses, easy "pars" and makes does not do justice to the elite talent at the top end of the spectrum. I don't think anyone wants to minimize, or narrow, that gap. Rather, the discussion is about what can be done to help further illustrate how far above us they actually are.
I guess I don't get it then and probably won't. If the whole point is that the skill gap is unnoticeable "due to easy courses, easy 'pars' and makes" then wouldn't making courses more difficult be the obvious answer; to stop playing majors and NT events at pitch and putt courses but rather courses with legit par 4 and 5's? Having pros play the same "easy" courses but putting at a smaller target would just show that they are more accurate putters than the average joe, but says nothing about how large the skill gap is. I mean all skills. Obviously, pros are much better putters than the average player, way more accurate and consistent. I don't need a bullseye only tournament to show me that.

To me, it's kinda like saying NBA players are really great basketball players b/c they can shoot free throws better than everybody else. Of course they can shoot free throws, that says nothing about the skill gap between them and dudes playing at the YMCA. Is the best way to show the public their skill v/s the average joe to have Kobe shoot free throws at a teeny tiny basket? Or should everybody else play on an 8' goal that's 32" across instead? Would that would show how much more accurate they are?

I know it's all hypothetical and whatnot. I'm just thinking about this whole thing too seriously and had hoped that pros would lend advice about what things rec players can work on to build their skills. That would be more interesting to me than how to build a squatty basket.

At any rate, instead of watching pros still drill deadly accurate putts at a tiny basket, which they would, wouldn't it be more fun to have am level tourneys or casual courses with super huge baskets! Like 4 feet wide huge. That would be super sweet! I could putt like Nikko for a day and the point that pros are way better putters would not be lost on me, not for a minute.
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Last edited by justactnormal; 01-07-2013 at 08:08 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #482  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:10 PM
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smyith smyith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGstatistician View Post
An established SSA should exist for each course, that way during practice you could figure out how well you are playing. This could easily be calculated using previous rounds played on a course. In order to judge the conditions, a second SSA based on how everyone played on a day could be factored in on a tournament day. A pretty straight forward and easy way to have ratings be more accurate... Obviously ratings should be ranges not numbers but that is neither here nor there.

As for making disc golf putting harder because of some constant Chuck keeps saying is nonsense. Longer courses would make the spread between players of different skills larger... Stop trying to fix what isn't broken by trying to change the sport into bg.
the idea is to limit the inconsistencies of non-consistent players. so you only want those that have maintained a consistent rating at 1000 for multiple years to judge the true SSA.
the idea is to have a set par on the books based on conditions, not one still dependent on variance in players.
No one is trying to change this into BG, we are trying to make it more professional and appealing to the sports world. The putting is the biggest criticism by sports organizations and broadcast stations. It should be addressed at the NT and Major levels. And eventually trickle down to the A-tiers.
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  #483  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:14 PM
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smyith smyith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeverett View Post
This typically is the case already for gold-level courses. For a properly calibrated course, the target skill level group *should* come out even. The problem is that for the vast majority of courses out there used for events aren't gold-level courses. Instead, we have a lot of blue (SSA950) and even white (SSA900) level courses used for events.
i would like to do away with that different course level bs personally. essentially it no longer becomes about individual hole pars but all about total strokes...like it really should be at the competitive level. hole par is for casual rec players and making scoring easier.
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  #484  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:18 PM
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jeverett jeverett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
No one is trying to change this into BG, we are trying to make it more professional and appealing to the sports world. The putting is the biggest criticism by sports organizations and broadcast stations. It should be addressed at the NT and Major levels. And eventually trickle down to the A-tiers.
You are contradicting yourself here:

Sentence #1: "The putting is the biggest criticism by sports organizations and broadcast stations." - this mindset coming from 'sports organizations' and 'broadcast stations' is because *they* are comparing disc golf with ball golf.

Sentence #2: "No one is trying to change this into BG" - yes, the above sports organizations and broadcast stations, because their background is from ball golf, are indeed trying to "change this into BG".
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  #485  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:19 PM
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Bonks Bonks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wake911 View Post
The top pros now, would barely be affected by it. The good players would be more affected, and the rec players would be most affected. Just like ball golf.
I fail to see the point in changing the basket if the top pros are barely going to be affected by said change. If people can't see the difference in a top pro skill level compared to your average player then that's on them and we don't have to run out and change the basics of the game because of it. I'm not sure why people want disc golf to become like ball golf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMcBeth View Post
I want the courses longer and tougher which should be the #1 qualifier for NT and higher the added cash.
I agree with Paul on how to showcase their skills more by making the courses longer and tougher for the NT.
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  #486  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:21 PM
PMcBeth PMcBeth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
Skillshot is great but I have found that it consistently catches the side of the chains barely touch junk putts. but thats the way the chains are designed. however when i got that thing though my putting got way better fast.



haha funny Paul. bullseye...imo...needs the width of the basket reduced to the minimum and the height of the basket portion raised significantly. Then I think it would be more "professional".
when I first started playing, the course near me had the chain appartatus missing on hole 9. It wasn't that hard to throw lofty flat putts in there. which always kind of bothered me as lame....Ty
I think the goal needs to be, hitting center is the only gurantee you will make it. the basket portion should be deep and only wide enough to gurantee that when you hit center it always goes in.



do the outer chains have a set width?
Make basket height can be 34.5 inches?
Minimum target zone 18.9 inches? <-- This should be reduced...imo
With an overall minimum height of 53.4 inches?
Chain apparatus width of 20.9"? <-- This should be reduced...imo
And a rim width of 24.4"? <-- This should be reduced...imo
Do you know what the bullseye basket is? Just a pole and a couple chains.... I think it could be shorter yes and maybe a top to stop lofts and crazy things .
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  #487  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:24 PM
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jeverett jeverett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
i would like to do away with that different course level bs personally. essentially it no longer becomes about individual hole pars but all about total strokes...like it really should be at the competitive level. hole par is for casual rec players and making scoring easier.
I don't really follow you here. Are you wanting the 'par' numbers rewritten to always reflect gold-level play, or are you wanting more actual gold-level courses? I agree with you on the second.. once again we're really talking about money, though. I'd love to see every NT course overnight become a gold-level par 72 (thanks to whoever mentioned that there is one par 72 NT course), but realistically our sport is financially miles and miles away from that.
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  #488  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:30 PM
DGstatistician DGstatistician is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Scoring spread isn't broken, it's the relationship between par and scoring that could be improved.
Scoring Spread is in relation to the thread about the difference between pro vs avg joe... The scoring spread will illustrate the gap better on longer more difficult courses.
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  #489  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:35 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Yes, longer/higher SSA courses do that. The discussion about putting challenge is primarily about how to get our par and scoring closer to reduce the amount of throws under par thrown by our top players. It likely will but not necessarily increase the scoring spread between Pro & Joe.
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  #490  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:36 PM
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WhiteyBear WhiteyBear is offline
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There's a misconception here...

A 15 handicapper that shoots a 87 is not the same as a scratch golfer that shoots 72, unless they are playing from the same tees.

Your usual weekend warrior golfer shoots from the whites or blues, not from the tips. Par is always the same (cases are different in some courses with red/golds) no matter what tee you choose to play from. The course par shouldn't change, the tees should just be harder.
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