Pro Vs. Avg Joe- Skill Gap

[BigSky]

The more I think about it, the less I care if baskets are changed, even if it means I may putt worse initially. The biggest problem is the extreme cost. It's not financially reasonable to ask every course to change all their baskets.

[Three Putt]

Originally Posted by PMcBeth

My problem is these baskets were made for the first discs like midnight flyers and stuff like that. So I can see why the targets are so big, now that the technology has grow and produced smaller more effective discs why hasn't the basket gone down the same path?

We did. We added inside chains to all of those old baskets when the Aviar came out; before that the single chain baskets were fine.

Really, back in the day there were not a lot of "automatic" putters on tour and until the jump putt came around in the early '00's you didn't see the kind of range you see out of guys now. Through the 90's, putting being too easy wasn't a comment you heard. By the time it started becoming a regular comment, you had a couple thousand courses in the ground with baskets using the old specs.

[alcstradamus]

Originally Posted by bluTDI09

I think that testing it out in a few tournaments for the pros is a great idea,

I disagree. The reason is, even if it proves to be a success, there is no end game in it. The vast majority of courses can not retrofit Bullseye baskets due to the cost, so any changes would most likely be limited to a few select NT courses. We can not create two separate games for Pro's and Am's, it is silly and makes disc golf look far worse than it does when a pro shoots -15.

[Toro71]

Originally Posted by wake911

Ha, I've had this conversation before (but only 2 aces) sadly, the WHOLE conversation is exact.

I put zip ties on my disc catcher sport last night, bringing in the chains about 3-4" all around. I was missing an extra 1-2 throws out of 20 at 20' last night. Normally i make 18/20 and i was hitting 16-17/20 all night (even worse that first couple sets of 20. By the end of my 200 putts, i was amazed at how much more confident I was with my putting. All my makes were dead center. I couldn't get away with errant shots. 6" to the right, flew into my bsmt wall, in stead of maybe catching the outer chain and falling into the basket. It was the most focused practice session I've had.

I could definitely see how putting on something like that in a tournament could add a shot or 2 to my score, but I bet great putters would only add 1 every couple rounds. It'd definitely put a premium on the approach shots, to get them closer, for an easier putt.

Agreed w/r/t approach game, but as you yourself are saying, it also places a higher premium on putting.

I agree with changing the basket, whether it's just for pro tourneys or across the board. Anything that requires a more complete game to "succeeed," whatever that means to you, makes it a better game. One hack's opinion.

[bluTDI09]

Originally Posted by alcstradamus

I disagree. The reason is, even if it proves to be a success, there is no end game in it. The vast majority of courses can not retrofit Bullseye baskets due to the cost, so any changes would most likely be limited to a few select NT courses. We can not create two separate games for Pro's and Am's, it is silly and makes disc golf look far worse than it does when a pro shoots -15.

I disagree that there is no end game. It will just take time for the game to evolve and for courses to catch up. And that is ok. If it makes the game better, it is worth doing in the long run. People will find a way to make it happen, whether it is retrofitting existing baskets or replacing them eventually or just accepting the difference for existing courses.

[PMcBeth]

Originally Posted by alcstradamus

I disagree. The reason is, even if it proves to be a success, there is no end game in it. The vast majority of courses can not retrofit Bullseye baskets due to the cost, so any changes would most likely be limited to a few select NT courses. We can not create two separate games for Pro's and Am's, it is silly and makes disc golf look far worse than it does when a pro shoots -15.

I disagree, every other sport gets tough as you go up the ranks.
Baseball goes from metal to wood bats
Football goes form a smaller ball with white easy to spots lines to the Duke
Golf just took away the belly putter because it made putting to easy.
Basketball the ball gets bigger and the hoops get higher... Every sport gets tougher as you get better. Most sports don't stay the same from day 1 to their final day like disc golf is on track to do.

[wake911]

Originally Posted by PMcBeth

Yup and why not have it get tougher instead of the no penalty.... Ill be with innova today maybe ill bring this thread up to them.

Cool. It'd be interesting what they have to say about this.

[bluTDI09]

Originally Posted by PMcBeth

For putting I think it will take away the gimmie. It will make people focus every shot. No more being pissed off and just throughing the disc hard at the basket people must now show composure for the whole hole.

In taking away the gimmie, it will also differentiate a shot that is 5ft from the basket from one that is 15ft from the basket. A 5 footer will still be a gimmie, which is fine. A 15 or 20 footer, which is often the result of a decent but not great approach, would actually require a real putt. No more mediocre upshot and putt with a bag on for a birdie (from good players).

[PMcBeth]

Originally Posted by bluTDI09

In taking away the gimmie, it will also differentiate a shot that is 5ft from the basket from one that is 15ft from the basket. A 5 footer will still be a gimmie, which is fine. A 15 or 20 footer, which is often the result of a decent but not great approach, would actually require a real putt. No more mediocre upshot and putt with a bag on for a birdie (from good players).

Exactly and that was my main point. Minus the (from good players) everybody does it.

[bluTDI09]

Originally Posted by PMcBeth

Exactly and that was my main point. Minus the (from good players) everybody does it.

All I meant by that was that good players take 15 footers for granted because they are easy. Less good players still get intimidated by 15 footers sometimes.