#641  
Old 01-09-2013, 12:21 PM
bluTDI09 bluTDI09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmk View Post
Ball golf putting has tension, though. After the ball is struck. As a spectator you have time on long putts to make your own evaluation on whether it will make it or not. Did he read the green right or not? Did he give it enough power?

Disc golf will never really achieve that. A putt is quickly resolved once it leaves the players hand - and it is relatively the same thing every time from the same distance - unless we are talking very windy conditions.
The putt is not the disc golf money shot.

Our tension comes from navigating our way TO the hole. Does it flip up, over or not at all? Does the anhyzer stall out too early? Will that hyzer line put it on target? Looking forward, where is it landing - and will it skip? Will he hit the gap?

Those things will increase in importance if you have to get closer to have a manageable putt. But once you are in putting range, all the tension resides in whether you want the player to make it or not - or if it is important competition wise. Not in observing the shot itself. There is simply not enough detail or variation for the observer to latch on to.

In that respect we are, relatively, opposite of ball golf.
Excellent points. But why would we not want it to be important competition-wise? I think that is what would add some of the tension that people find interesting to disc golf. Right now, putting is very uninteresting, I agree. It may never be as interesting as in ball golf because the disc travels faster and long putts don't take as much time. But if there is risk associated with throwing a putt so hard that you do not have to read the wind, then playing the wind becomes our version of reading the green.
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  #642  
Old 01-09-2013, 12:46 PM
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alcstradamus alcstradamus is offline
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Point blank, bullseye baskets would make the gap between top pro's and advanced players wider, and it would make the gap between advanced players and rec players smaller (due to 2 putting becomming more normal. After all, even a terrible player can 2 putt easily from within 50 ft. unlike ball golf where terrible players often 3 or 4 putt from long distance).

The unintended consequence of narrowing the gap between rec and advanced is not worth the intended consequence of widening the gap between the top pro and the advanced.
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  #643  
Old 01-09-2013, 12:50 PM
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TOURNEYPLAYER TOURNEYPLAYER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstradamus View Post
Point blank, bullseye baskets would make the gap between top pro's and advanced players wider, and it would make the gap between advanced players and rec players smaller (due to 2 putting becomming more normal. After all, even a terrible player can 2 putt easily from within 50 ft. unlike ball golf where terrible players often 3 or 4 putt from long distance).

The unintended consequence of narrowing the gap between rec and advanced is not worth the intended consequence of widening the gap between the top pro and the advanced.
I dont think this is true. for a true rec player they need to get pretty close, and usually dont hit the line off the tee. i think that gap would stay the same. the rec player may labor more to try to get closer. while the Adv will thow his same shot, and either lay up or take the bird. you will see many less "luck" birdies from the rec players. Plus I think they are talking about using it for NTs. not in all tourneys.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
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alcstradamus alcstradamus is offline
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Originally Posted by TOURNEYPLAYER View Post
I dont think this is true. for a true rec player they need to get pretty close, and usually dont hit the line off the tee. i think that gap would stay the same. the rec player may labor more to try to get closer. while the Adv will thow his same shot, and either lay up or take the bird. you will see many less "luck" birdies from the rec players. Plus I think they are talking about using it for NTs. not in all tourneys.
I probably should have used intermediate instead of rec. The point was making is that there are a lot of players who can't bomb drives and throw accurately, but can't make a 30 ft. putt. The scoring separation that these people have vs. better players is that the better players make a few more putts per round than them. If these better players started taking 2's where they would have taken 1's before, the scoring separation doesn't exist.
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  #645  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:10 PM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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I honestly wouldn't mind seeing basket manufacturers start coming out with smaller tray buckets.

Initially, they could be used as traveling baskets for top tier events. Later, as we build more and more blue/gold level courses, we could start seeing them as permanents on those type of courses, or even as tourney temps for your local B-tier. Perhaps even later, multiple basket courses could use the existing standard baskets in their shorter positions and a smaller tray target for their longer ones.
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  #646  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:13 PM
bluTDI09 bluTDI09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstradamus View Post
Point blank, bullseye baskets would make the gap between top pro's and advanced players wider, and it would make the gap between advanced players and rec players smaller (due to 2 putting becomming more normal. After all, even a terrible player can 2 putt easily from within 50 ft. unlike ball golf where terrible players often 3 or 4 putt from long distance).

The unintended consequence of narrowing the gap between rec and advanced is not worth the intended consequence of widening the gap between the top pro and the advanced.
If it were true that it would narrow the gap between int and adv players, maybe that would help solve some of the issues with "bagging," but that is another discussion altogether. FWIW, I don't think it would have that effect because advanced players are better at driving and approaching just like pros are better at those things than advanced players.

I also think that putting trends will be very similar to how they are now, but shifted relative to distance from the basket. Pros making 30 footers will still happen but with the frequency that they make 40 footers now, for example. Rec players will still make 20 footers, but with the frequency that they make 30 footers now. And sometimes they would still 3 and 4 putt.
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  #647  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:22 PM
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BigSky BigSky is offline
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It may have been mentioned before in the thread, but if this idea of changing the basket actually gains some support, wouldn't it legitimize the game more to outsiders if we used a standardized target? Every other sport, and game has specific measurements and configurations for their targets, goals, cups, bases, rims...etc. One standard championship level basket should be used by whichever manufacturer the PDGA chooses...which of course would be Innova.
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  #648  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:24 PM
bluTDI09 bluTDI09 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigSky View Post
It may have been mentioned before in the thread, but if this idea of changing the basket actually gains some support, wouldn't it legitimize the game more to outsiders if we used a standardized target? Every other sport, and game has specific measurements and configurations for their targets, goals, cups, bases, rims...etc. One standard championship level basket should be used by whichever manufacturer the PDGA chooses...which of course would be Innova.
or a sufficient specification such that different manufacturers could produce targets with the same catching characteristics if they choose, which would help reduce cost
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  #649  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:43 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluTDI09 View Post
If it were true that it would narrow the gap between int and adv players, maybe that would help solve some of the issues with "bagging," but that is another discussion altogether. FWIW, I don't think it would have that effect because advanced players are better at driving and approaching just like pros are better at those things than advanced players.

I also think that putting trends will be very similar to how they are now, but shifted relative to distance from the basket. Pros making 30 footers will still happen but with the frequency that they make 40 footers now, for example. Rec players will still make 20 footers, but with the frequency that they make 30 footers now. And sometimes they would still 3 and 4 putt.
Bagging could be worse. If moving to open meant putting on smaller baskets I think less people would make the jump. Bagging can only be solved by trophy only.

I agree with the second paragraph, the relative distances made will just shift and hole outs over 60' will be rare.
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  #650  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:44 PM
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BigSky BigSky is offline
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Originally Posted by bluTDI09 View Post
or a sufficient specification such that different manufacturers could produce targets with the same catching characteristics if they choose, which would help reduce cost
That would also work, although it might not look as uniform to the outsider depending on design differences between manufacturers.
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