#661  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:08 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wake911 View Post
Advanced vs Open isn't bagging. It is a decision made by the player how serious they want to get with disc golf. Amateur or Pro, 2 different philosophies.

I don't see how changing targets would affect people's decisions to bag or not to bag any more or any less.
There's trickle down effect to lower divisions, especially when 1000+ rated players are still playing AM1 because they can make more off plastic as AMs than they would not cashing in Open and getting a lower rating on smaller baskets.
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  #662  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:11 PM
Rockwell Rockwell is offline
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I'm not sure if I'm for or against harder baskets, but what do you guys think about this:

Just use the poles as an object to hit. Take away chains and basket, and make it a no-luck yes-or-no did you hit the pole.
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  #663  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:27 PM
Casual Squishy Casual Squishy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell View Post
I'm not sure if I'm for or against harder baskets, but what do you guys think about this:

Just use the poles as an object to hit. Take away chains and basket, and make it a no-luck yes-or-no did you hit the pole.
That's exactly how many early courses got their start and to the older players it would seem like a giant step backwards. There are still many "object courses" around as temp courses today but they are only played for practice/fun/impractability of placing targets. Visual appeal wise and "feeling like a skill not game feel wise" it literally has 0 appeal to probably 99.9% of players including attracting new people to the game.
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  #664  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:34 PM
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BigSky BigSky is offline
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Originally Posted by Casual Squishy View Post
That's exactly how many early courses got their start and to the older players it would seem like a giant step backwards. There are still many "object courses" around as temp courses today but they are only played for practice/fun/impractability of placing targets. Visual appeal wise and "feeling like a skill not game feel wise" it literally has 0 appeal to probably 99.9% of players including attracting new people to the game.
This.

We need baskets (targets) to become standardized, and look professional, not the other way around.

I like the idea of a Discatcher Mini. A good catching basket, with just a smaller target zone.
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  #665  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:40 PM
Casual Squishy Casual Squishy is offline
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Paul I'm sure you've noticed the small snowball you tossed out answering the original post pretty quickly turned into an avalanche. You should start a thread dedicated to the idea and request people at least post what division they play or hope to someday play to get more feedback from the community and maybe get some of the other higher level pros to share some of their feelings on the subject if you wouldn't mind. You've definitly given people something new to talk about.
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  #666  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:44 PM
bluTDI09 bluTDI09 is offline
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I only think having different baskets for pros is a good idea as a trial run. I think the sport as a whole would move in that direction and the ideal end result would be that everyone would eventually play on the same targets.
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  #667  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:50 PM
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mreynolds24 mreynolds24 is offline
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To grow the game, leave the baskets as they are. To grow the sport, make the baskets and courses more difficult. That is where we are right now. Only a small percentage of people think of disc golf as a sport. Maybe it is because I have the mentality that I am playing a sport, that I want it to be as challenging as it can be. I want to have to push myself to make better throws, and to make me concentrate on what I am doing more. When you go to a ball golf course, most try to make it difficult on the players. Having that stigma of being a difficult sport does not stop it from growing. There are still par 3 courses for those looking to just have a good time, and have an easy round. I think disc golf needs to be the same way. I think we are a long way from achieving this because it is difficult for disc golf courses to be approved for the amount of land needed, and on the right property to make the courses more difficult. Also, there seems to be a lapse in the course designers being able to properly design courses because of the differing opinion of installing beginner courses (to attract new players) vs. championship level courses (to challenge existing players). Many currently installed courses seem to either have been designed with beginners or old technology in mind.

I think there has to be a change in mindset from everyone going forward to at least make courses longer in order to keep the sport growing. If beginners are never introduced to a championship level course, they are not inspired to play at that level. I know I really started to love the game when I first when to Idlewild and got hit in the mouth by a course. Ever since then, the goal has been to get as good as I can be so I can fight back on courses of that level.

As far as the disparity between different divisions goes: Maybe that should be restructured as well. Just have pros and ams and possibly a beginners division and a couple others based on age (masters / < 16). Then have pros play for cash, ams play for plastic, and everyone else play for trophies. I think we need to stop catering towards lower level players and beginners, and start focusing on the top. It's the only way the sport is going to grow, by having more people striving to be at the top rather than scared to move up and being happy dominating the intermediate level.
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  #668  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:23 PM
wake911 wake911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mreynolds24 View Post
To grow the game, leave the baskets as they are. To grow the sport, make the baskets and courses more difficult.
That's a point I've tried to express a couple of times but failed miserably at conveying. Good wording.
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  #669  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:31 PM
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Toro71 Toro71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell View Post
I'm not sure if I'm for or against harder baskets, but what do you guys think about this:

Just use the poles as an object to hit. Take away chains and basket, and make it a no-luck yes-or-no did you hit the pole.
Plus, without some kind of official near every target, you get endless debates about "did I hit it or not" from outside of, say, 150 ft, eyesight of course depending. I know, I know, "tone poles!"
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  #670  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:34 PM
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Toro71 Toro71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell View Post
To the original question:

IS THE GAP BIG?
Yes, it is. Regardless of strokes, if you put a beginner disc golfer up against a world-caliber player, on a Tournament level course, over 4 rounds, they have essentially ZERO chance of beating the Pro. So in my mind that is a huge gap.

COULD THE GAP BE BIGGER?
Yes, it could. Contributing factors would include (as has already been stated) 1) Greater number of players starting from youth with the intent of becomming a professional. (this would allow the Elite to be discovered, but it would also have the side effect of mid-teir players being much better than they are.)
2) Tougher Courses that allow players to showcase the skills that seperate them from lower ranks.
3)Holes that exhibit good scoring spread realted to skill level.
4)More incentives that allow a player to devote thier life to the sport (money, fame, ect.)


SO WHY DOES THE GAP SEEM SMALL?:
- I could play Climo on a 200' open hole and do just as well as him.
- I could have a free throw contest against LeBron or Shaq and beat them.
- I could bowl a single frame against the best bowler in the world and get a strike.
- I could kick an Extra Point in football against David Akers and we could both make it.

The Gaps open up when you begin to give the best the opportunity to showcase thier greater talent. (52 yard field goal with the game on the line on a snowy day; 48 minutes of fast paced basketball, 9 game bowling series with differing lane conditions, ect.)
Good post. Clear, consise, to the point, and with strong, understandable analogies. Well played.
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