#11  
Old 01-15-2013, 01:34 AM
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techn9cian4life techn9cian4life is offline
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I dont even know what the hell any of that stuff is Lol Push putting, loft putting, spin putting, etc. I just do whats comfortable, doesn't need a label for me to know it works. Pretty sure I straddle putt though with a little bit of spin + loft + a little snap in my wrist.... Lol So I'm all F'd up. I used to putt with my body turned, like you stated, but I didn't have very good accuracy/power. Then started straddle putting one day during a casual round and all of a sudden I was bangin 30'-40' putts like it was nothing. Been doing that ever since. Getting a portable basket is helping a lot during this winter off season.
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:29 AM
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Taylor Taylor is offline
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Originally Posted by bholy08 View Post
I think a lot of people minimize the importance of some elbow movement in push putting. If there is no elbow movement, it is incredibly difficult to propel the disc form the pendulum motion.
Correct. Some of the best like Jeremy Koling and Schusterick have large elbow bends. Their arms are so long that you can really see that there is a bend. I think all of the others have it, you just can't see it as well because of their smaller stature.

Everyone has a some elbow bend. It is necessary to the putt.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:17 AM
bfowler bfowler is offline
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Originally Posted by Scarps View Post
I cant seem to get rid of the wobble unless i bend my elbow a little.i find myself doing sort of a hybrid between spin and push putting.if my arm is dead straight locked it comes out super weak and wobbly.so you got rid of the wobble by keeping the disc on the same plane through the swing of your arm?
Yes. If I hold the disk straight out in front of me it's parallel to the ground. I swing my arm down through my legs and swing my arm like a pendulum.

Try putting your hand out palm up and putting the disk in it centered over your whole hand. So your whole hand is under the disk. Now pitch it underhanded and foreword like you're throwing a softball. That's the feeling of how it flies.

Now hold you disk like your normal putt. You do the same underhanded softball pitching motion but now spring your fingers apart upon release. It's the same spring your get from throwing a dart or flinging water from your fingers at someone.

It also helps to get some spring forward/upwards with your legs and hips as your arm comes up.

I practiced a while yesterday and found that when I throw like I've described a get a lot of nose down. That was robbing me of some distance but I've never seen a disk die so good at the end of a throw. Plop. No rolling, no sliding, just plop, it's down. I tried moving my hand on the disk to more of a 1 o'clock position (before it was more at 3) and that keeps my nose up more and I'm getting some more distance.

I can't stress enough how much it's like tossing an underhanded softball pitch that your swing from just inside your legs. Oh yea, my elbow bends very little if at all and it definitely doesn't bend enough to become a lever point. It bends about as much as it does when you toss a softball underhanded.

Last edited by bfowler; 01-15-2013 at 08:19 AM.
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:44 AM
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Scarps Scarps is offline
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I try not focusing too much on anything other than making the putt.however this is during the round.at home while practice putting i try tweaking my mechanics.i mostly work on outside the circle push putting.it kills me how effortlessly these guys drain there putts from 50' out,and theyre push putting.another thing is the low line they keep it on,youd thing they would need alot of height to loft it that far.putters like Wysocki and Shusterick must mave huge finger spring.

Last edited by Scarps; 01-15-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:31 AM
wake911 wake911 is offline
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Something interesting i saw while sick Thursday and youtubing EVERYTHING. I was watching the full 2011 Memorial and final 9 for Worlds 2012.

The 2011 Memorial, Ricky Wysocki basically spin putts. Or at most a hybrid spin/push. Whereas at the worlds in 2012 he is 100% push putter with the big arm swing. Drastically different styles. He missed a lot of putts on the memorial video, and after seeing how good of a putter he was at worlds, it was surprising.

It'd be interested to hear about his change. Why/how, etc. It was drastic how much better he was at Worlds than 1.5yrs earlier at memorial.
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:56 PM
geoblime geoblime is offline
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Two years ago, before Pro Worlds, I decided to change my putting style. I was getting very frustrated on being an above average driver but not being able to close the deal with the putt. Nothing hurts more than having an amazing drive thru numerous obstacles to tank the 20 footer!

Up until this point I was more of a spin putter. My friends said it kinda looked to them as if I lined up to have a long swing between my legs but when I went to release the putt, I'd bring my arm up and "pop" the disc very fast from my waste thru the basket. I've had success this way, but not consistent success.

I decided to change three things after watching videos and playing with/observing multiple pros during tourneys (I've been playing open for 6+ years).

1. My grip--For the longest time I would putt with the grip I drove with. The exact way I grabbed a driver I would grab my putter(fingers tucked into the rim, index finger wrapped across the rim with pad somewhat into the lip). I think this in part why I was a spin putter. It's hard to do it any other way with that grip. It felt weird at first, but with the help of some very long time Pros, I switched my grip to more of a fan grip. (I'm very lucky as I play in Berkeley, Ca. and we have some of the best history in the game to learn from). For the most part, my thumb and index fingers stayed the same, but the other fingers moved to the middle. This was the start to more of a push putt/little spin for me...and more success.

2. The next change came from watching a couple Pros I've competed with over the years (Norcal) who have amazing glide in their putts with what seemed like little effort. They are all push putters but did not have the extreme up and down putts sometimes needed with the "horse shoe" style putting.
What I noticed is that as they were coming to the point of release, there was just a little flick of the wrist at the end of the release. I mean, very, very little. Just enough to impart a very minor amount of spin to keep the disc "afloat" for a while. Not spin putting. Not dead weight putting, but a push putt/tiny spin hybrid. Some people will say this is not push putting but if you look, all disc are spinning. It's just the amount that's different.
I tried for a long time to copy that little flick but could not get it. Then one day, it dawned on me while looking at my hand with a putter, why not try to hold my wrist/hand in a position which could simulate this flick. I wanted something I could replicate every time. I'd guess that 80% of people's hands, like mine, are on the side of the disc while you hold a putter. I thought, what if I rotated my hand so the second knuckle of the index finger was aiming at the basket. Basically, cocking your wrist slightly. I painted the basket with my knuckle as I prepped for putting and when I released a little glide came from no where. Yay! Next, i thought well if that worked, why not try aiming with my main knuckle (metacarpal) witch effectively cocks my wrist a little more. With that, there was much more glide! I'm talking about glide with not much spin. This was something I could replicate every time by painting the pole with my knuckle.

3. Arm swing. At the same time as my "knuckle putt" change, I also changed my swing. It's now much more like Ricky's, Nikko's, Philo's, etc. Stance more open, half way between straddle and back to forward with the reach down going between the legs with the arm much straighter. I try to hyzer put with the push off coming from the bottom of the disc with my fingers from the fan grip. I try to paint the basket pole with my arm while setting up. Even with the overstable putter I use, the Yeti Pro, I still get a good amount of glide before it tails left. I'd much rather miss high/low than left/right and this putting style is usually straight which leaves the high/low to figure out. The other positive aspect of this style is I don't blow past the basket if I miss. Nothing sucks more than having a birdie put and missing it to where you have a longer come back for par. As I move farther out from the basket, I concentrate on a greater weight shift back to front for more momentum.

These three things have made a big difference in my putts. Maybe just one thing will help, maybe all three. I've struggled with my putt for almost as long as I've played and since I changed, my putt has drastically improved. It's been over a year and I'm really happy I made the move. You have to stick with something to see changes. People give up if it worked initially but started going bad. It takes a long time!

Sorry for the novel. This really made an impact on my game so I'm hoping it might help some other golf bros and gals. Keep'm flying!
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:46 PM
bfowler bfowler is offline
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Originally Posted by geoblime View Post
Then one day, it dawned on me while looking at my hand with a putter, why not try to hold my wrist/hand in a position which could simulate this flick. I wanted something I could replicate every time. I'd guess that 80% of people's hands, like mine, are on the side of the disc while you hold a putter. I thought, what if I rotated my hand so the second knuckle of the index finger was aiming at the basket. Basically, cocking your wrist slightly. I painted the basket with my knuckle as I prepped for putting and when I released a little glide came from no where. Yay!
You said it. I have just started doing this in the last few days because of my putts going so much nose down. I too found that rotating my grip to around 12:05 or so and my hand naturally opening to release the disk inparts just enough spin to really get strong consistant results.

I practiced for about an hour after work today with a friend who just bought a discatcher sport basket. This is the first time I've been able to try my redeveloped push putt (nose up and not rotating my wrist trying to snap it up).

I kid you not. I was sinking everything.

It felt like I was throwing a basketball into a child's play pool.

Inside 15 feet I might as well have stood next to the basket and dropped it in. 15-25 is very good too but I have to make sure I keep that nose up or I won't get the distance. It'll got straight as a arrow but die before it gets to the chains.

I was shocked today when I hit a 42 footer. I had to put a little more loft on it but it got right to the top right of the chains and dove right in. I'm using a medium Warlock but want a soft/medium Magic. I've got 3 other Magics and love the line they take but wanted a hard disk for push putts and that's the best my shop had.

Just for the heck of it I'll talk about my exact hand placement since it might help somebody. I read everything I could find about push putting 2 or 3 times over.

With the disk being a clock hold it up in front of your face. I grip with my the line of the first knuckle of my index finger (count from the tip down) under the rim of the disk where the bead is if you disk has one. The other fingers fan out under the disk. My thumb goes across the disk. That index finger disappears under the disk at about 12:05. My thumb is almost exactly perpendicular to the basket.

When I lower my disc by the inside of my leg I'm inbetween half straddle and half staggered. My wrist is cocked up like in the handshake postion but tilt it up at the wrist. As I swing my arm up without bending my elbow the disk my wrist kinds pops into the straight to slight down handshake postion. This with the swing generation my lift but with a lot of forward momentum. My hand open from the thumb being perpendicular to pointing right at the basket. Then generates enough spin to get all the glide you need. The spin loft combo allows my disk to go dead nuts straight on my line.

The more arm swing and leg/hip down to forward and up motion as I come up add some more power. Combine on that and I've got a putt I love from 40 feet and in. I'll use this putt 100% from 30 feet an in but my spin putt is still better from outside that because I can easily generate so much power with it. With the 40 foot push putt I've got to make sure I've got the proper nose up, power up with my legs, etc. to get it. But I'm only been using it that long for one day so who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Sorry for all the novels in this threat. I'm just super excited about this.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:16 PM
Asian Style Asian Style is offline
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Any new insights on this? I feel like I'm right in the middle of where you are. I cannot keep the pitch putt down like I see the pros doing. It goes crazy high and flops out. I also am getting a ton of wobble and it looks like a dead duck flying through the air. Not pretty at all. Nor accurate. I have found a few things of my own.

1. While releasing around the knee does seem to give me the pitch effect, the downside is that it causes nose down. Even if I go extreme and cock my wrist up to try and get the nose up it just dives down. With some new things I'm trying though, I am now releasing around chest high and I will explain below how I'm keeping it down in the palm thrust tecknique.

2. I've tried moving my hand in front of the disc towards the 12:30-1:00 position and it does in fact raise the nose up but at the consequence of losing power and introducing the wobble again. it makes sense that it would wobble since my finger springing is no longer on the same plane as the disc.

3. I have recently discovered about the "palm thrust technique". I think this is the origin of the "push" in push putting. I literally focus on my palm instead of my fingers now and that seems to give me more power and the flight path you see feldberg, nikko, wysocki, etc. get. Think of it as a palm strike to the back of the disc. If you strike it sharply, the fingers seem to naturally spring open quickly.

4. Along with the palm thrust I am also trying to thrust my shoulder forward to give it even more oomph forwards.

5. I have discovered my weight shift isn't as good as it feels like. Right now I'm literally practicing my weight shift so that I have to foot fault to catch myself. This is giving me noticeably more power. I think because I'm afraid of foot faulting, I'm not shifting my weight properly and that is robbing me of much power. I'm planning to work back from weight shifting too much to a balanced finish.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:38 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asian Style View Post
Any new insights on this? I feel like I'm right in the middle of where you are. I cannot keep the pitch putt down like I see the pros doing. It goes crazy high and flops out. I also am getting a ton of wobble and it looks like a dead duck flying through the air. Not pretty at all. Nor accurate. I have found a few things of my own.

1. While releasing around the knee does seem to give me the pitch effect, the downside is that it causes nose down. Even if I go extreme and cock my wrist up to try and get the nose up it just dives down. With some new things I'm trying though, I am now releasing around chest high and I will explain below how I'm keeping it down in the palm thrust tecknique.

2. I've tried moving my hand in front of the disc towards the 12:30-1:00 position and it does in fact raise the nose up but at the consequence of losing power and introducing the wobble again. it makes sense that it would wobble since my finger springing is no longer on the same plane as the disc.

3. I have recently discovered about the "palm thrust technique". I think this is the origin of the "push" in push putting. I literally focus on my palm instead of my fingers now and that seems to give me more power and the flight path you see feldberg, nikko, wysocki, etc. get. Think of it as a palm strike to the back of the disc. If you strike it sharply, the fingers seem to naturally spring open quickly.

4. Along with the palm thrust I am also trying to thrust my shoulder forward to give it even more oomph forwards.

5. I have discovered my weight shift isn't as good as it feels like. Right now I'm literally practicing my weight shift so that I have to foot fault to catch myself. This is giving me noticeably more power. I think because I'm afraid of foot faulting, I'm not shifting my weight properly and that is robbing me of much power. I'm planning to work back from weight shifting too much to a balanced finish.
Bro:

I am an Am. Putting makes all the difference in the world. Learning how to putt well not only increases your scores a few strokes, but once you do and have confidence, you end up having a brand new approach to most holes. And since I've gone through most of the steps you have, I'm gonna send you a pic/vid of what I'm talking about. From an Am whose raised his rating by nearly 40 points in a year.

On #1 & 2. Your index (pointer) finger might be causing the wobble. Get it as curled under as possible without feeling uncomfortable, and get your middle finger (right next to it) as up high as possible. It'll feel kinda like flipping the bird. Then grip it firm but not over-tight, firmer with the back two fingers on the "back" of your grip, than the two I just mentioned.

on #3. You're spot on.

on #4 & 5. The power has to come from the legs not the arm or shoulder. Arm is just to control the direction of the putt, timed with the wrist-spring. While learning, try doing the push putt without "rocking" back & forth. In other words, with just the forward movement. Find your otherwise normal downswing, then arm upswing on the putt. Then stop on the absolute bottom of the downswing. Pause and practice just the up. Weight back still at the very bottom of the downswing. It still has to be a slow-to-fast "hit" like a drive, but only use the legs to deliver power. If you see it spinning correctly and going up & down correctly but it's short, then that's a good thing. Easier to correct that than the other.

Good luck, and I'll pm you later, if you'd like.

A

Last edited by araytx; 04-01-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:45 PM
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Stankyjahnke Stankyjahnke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Your Ricky Wysocki reference makes me think that you've watched a lot of good putters and know how you want your putt to look. Something I've noticed is that a lot of these putters (push putters) swing from a really low point, namely Ricky and Nikko. But so does Mcbeth (who sometimes push putts and sometimes spin putts) and Feldberg.

It helps these players: A) Get more arm speed to propel the putt and B) Release the putt and a lower point so it travels up first and then down as apposed to Nate Doss who starts high and relies on that putt to stay high. Doss misses a lot of putts low where as push putters tend to miss a lot of putts high.

Anyway. Just another observation from someone has been trying to learn as much as possible about putting.

I can't get low enough to the ground to extend my arm that far back(both knees reconstructed) but I'm pretty good from 30ft in but once I get farther away I can't generate the power while keeping my accuracy. My jump putts are a joke. Good thing my appoarch and drive game is really good.
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