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View Poll Results: Gimmicky or Not
Artificial OOB (yellow ropes etc) 12 14.12%
Man made walls 1 1.18%
baskets on slopes 0 0%
baskets near water 0 0%
elevated baskets 5 5.88%
hanging baskets 8 9.41%
sunken baskets 7 8.24%
basket in trees 4 4.71%
pavement or sidewalk oob 1 1.18%
low ceiling roller holes (cedars etc) 0 0%
single mandos 1 1.18%
double mandos 0 0%
triple mandos 12 14.12%
mounds 1 1.18%
baskets on cliff edges 1 1.18%
throws off the tops of mountains 0 0%
Island Holes/Peninsula(artificial oob) 1 1.18%
Island Holes/Peninsula (natural) 0 0%
artificial obstacles used to force specific shots 8 9.41%
heavily wooded plinko style holes 9 10.59%
sculptures and art on the course 2 2.35%
Buildings used as design elements 3 3.53%
forced carries over massive oob 5 5.88%
Ski Hill Golf 4 4.71%
BUNCR designed 0 0%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:43 AM
texhop58 texhop58 is offline
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I helped design a course for my home town. Two of these will be featured onthe course. But only one was planned that way. We put in an artificial elevated island hole. Our island is 40 feet wide elevated 3ft to 4ft towards back. The second hole started out being put about 6 feet up on the dam that would make you put in the air. Well I left a discgolfer mag at a friends house and his father got a hold of it. He decided we needed the "remi" wall idea. I think one or two of these on a course is ok, but to have 10 of your 18 holes be "gimmicky" is too much.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:15 AM
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Lewis Lewis is offline
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Artificial OOB (yellow ropes etc) - not a big deal to me, but it has to be done well and sparingly.
Man made walls - fences alongside the fairway are one thing, but building a wall on the course just for kicks is too much.
baskets on slopes - great design element, and not gimmicky at all.
baskets near water - also a good design element, unless the basket is in water. Then it's a major gimmick.
elevated baskets - I don't like the idea, think it's rather gimmicky, and for me diminishes the fun.
hanging baskets - Not as bad as elevated baskets, but yes, rather gimmicky.
sunken baskets - Gimmicky, yes, but the one at Flyboy is actually done well and makes the hole more interesting.
basket in trees - This tends to be gimmicky, but the "Old Tree of Disc Golf" hole at Flyboy is done really well.
pavement or sidewalk oob - a necessary evil on some courses, therefore not a gimmick as much as a flaw.
low ceiling roller holes (cedars etc) - nothing wrong with that at all, unless my imagination of it is off.
single mandos - more often than not, this is a necessary evil rather than a gimmick, but no big deal to me.
double mandos - Yes, this is starting to get gimmicky.
triple mandos - This is definitely gimmicky, and sounds irritating to play.
mounds - you mean around the basket or on the fairway? I guess it depends on the situation.
baskets on cliff edges - not necessarily a gimmick, but this sounds like too much of a punishment for missing.
throws off the tops of mountains - not a gimmick at all, but I suspect not all are good holes.
Island Holes/Peninsula(artificial oob) - somewhat gimmicky, but can be done right.
Island Holes/Peninsula (natural) - the gimmick depends on how "forced" the setup is, but generally less gimmicky than artificial oob.
artificial obstacles used to force specific shots - You mean like a windmill or a screen in front of the basket? Yeah, that's f'in gimmick city. Keep it on the mini golf putt-putt course.
heavily wooded plinko style holes - sucky but not gimmicky
sculptures and art on the course - nothing wrong with this, but keep it from blocking the fairway.
Buildings used as design elements - bad idea, and especially gimmicky if it's not necessary for the layout
forced carries over massive oob - I've got no problem with this, as long as there is a "voluntary drop zone" so you don't have to throw one in the water. Flyboy #3 is a prime example of doing this right.
Ski Hill Golf - that's just part of the land, like throwing off a mountain, though I've never played a ski hill course.
BUNCR designed - not sure, probably gimmicky, but maybe it can add to a design.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:10 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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I can't it define it, but I know it when I see it. (Hey, it's a good enough answer for the Supreme Court).

For almost all the listed items, it depends on the execution. "Gimmicky" is often something that looks cool, but plays poorly, frequently because it favors luck over skill. Or something that doesn't really add much, like raising a basket 2' on bricks or a haybales.

I also find that some features aren't too gimmicky when when used sparingly, but are if used repeatedly on the same course.

That said, I think the features I've found most gimmicky are double and triple mandos, and artificial obstacles, such as walls, nets, and other such constructions.

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In detail, I'm almost completely in agreement with Lewis's post.

Last edited by DavidSauls; 01-16-2013 at 09:13 AM.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:25 AM
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BraveThrower43 BraveThrower43 is offline
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The main thing I think of when I see gimicky is plinko trees or branches extended into the fairway. I like to see clean lines even if the lines are small they need to be clean not a poke and pray. A lot of this comes down to the length of the hole vs. the width of the fairway. There should e some decent balance there.

Also triple and double mandos used the wrong way. Im thinking of hole 4 at farmington park in Rocky Mount NC and several holes at Boyd hill in Rock Hill, SC. These design elements done wrong can really make a hole unbearable or stupid. Done the right way and you have Sugaw #9 & #17 and/or nevin #14.

Also I think alone all of these elements can be used successfully but when you add several together such as a 300' hole with a triple mando and a raised basket near an OB road, that turns Gimicky.


With most things that are considered Gimicky there is a fine line between doing it right and making a poor hole from what I see.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:31 AM
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Martin Dewgarita Martin Dewgarita is offline
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I agree with most of what has been said already. It's situational, used sparingly I enjoy most "gimmicky" design elements if they're implemented well. Poor execution or over use of certain elements will push my buttons on the course.
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:55 AM
wake911 wake911 is offline
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All of those are gimmicks. Not all uses of gimmicks are bad. Sometimes in order to get a course in the midwest, where we don't have a lot of natural obstacles, selective use of gimmicks can make a good course great. For instance a great course here in town has 2 gimmick baskets. One hangs over a small creek (that is OB, but 100% can get your disc back) and one is placed on the ground in deep woods.

The one over the creek is the most butt puckering putt you will have. You miss, you get a penalty shot and then your next shot is in automatically (if you hit metal)..so putting for 2, you hit metal and miss and get a 4) That makes a 12-15' WAY tougher than a 12-15' putt should be. It's a short hole, so should be easy 2/3, but man that is tough putt mentally. Love it.
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:26 AM
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Disc Fiend Disc Fiend is offline
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I hate unnecessary artificial O.B. If the O.B. is water, or real thick schule/high grass, or a walking path to keep other park-goers safe etc. then it is cool. What I hate is random O.B. lines out in the middle of fields and stuff that are just pointless.
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
elevated baskets - I don't like the idea, think it's rather gimmicky, and for me diminishes the fun.
hanging baskets - Not as bad as elevated baskets, but yes, rather gimmicky.
I just don't understand how these are gimmicky? Maybe you have just never played a course where they did it right? Elevated baskets, when done right, make for fast greens which make for some good golf. We can agree that fast greens are fun right?
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:45 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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The poll's biggest flaw is that there's no option to vote for "none of the above".

I think there's a difference between a blanket statement that "gimmick X is bad" and "gimmick X is poorly executed at course Y and I didn't like that". I'm not going to go through the whole list, but in each case, whether it is "good" or "bad" depends on execution.

I do get a little prickly about the whole "artificial OB" thing, though. ALL OB is artificial, in that none of it has to be OB. The only OB that is bad, IMO, is poorly placed OB and poorly defined OB. And just because one hole or one tournament or whatever has some poorly placed or poorly thought out rope OB, that doesn't make all rope OB wrong. Same with elevated or sunken baskets, mandos, unique obstacles, etc.

I find that most people's objections are either biased by how successful they are at navigating a so-called gimmick or it's an aesthetic issue. If they got through it fine and took no penalties or extra throws, they tend not to complain as much. As far as aesthetics go, that's a financial issue. All the "natural" obstacles and gimmicks in ball golf (bunkers, undulating greens, etc) are really artificial. They were landscaped in to look natural, but they probably didn't exist before the course did. Ball golf just has thousands and millions of dollars to build these courses to look like they've been there all along. We don't have that luxury, so we end up with ropes and mando arrows and elevated/sunken baskets.
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:01 AM
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sloppydisc sloppydisc is offline
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You need to allow for multiple sections in your poll. That would give you the answers you are looking for.
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