#701  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:15 PM
Aim For The Chains's Avatar
Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZAMson View Post
Last night I wrote 9,000+ words on this...

If you read deeply into those vague-ish brief descriptions of drivers on the MVP site, you'll find they are littered with concepts from DGR. I speak the same DGR shorthand with MVP as I do with ZJ. Remember they were just regular DGR Joes for a long time before they started posting about their weird homemade blue and red (ick) putter.

Take the most DGR-philosophical mindset of how exactly a "slightly overstable" control driver behaves. Firstly, trust me that "wind-fighting" is off the map. The Volt is stable; it mamimizes its Turn and fades. The Shock dampens Turn more; it still turns, as a control driver should. Unless the Shock is near your arm's maximum speed threshold, like me, it won't be a wind-fighter. That's simply not what slightly overstable control is about. (btw my claim for "control driver" language: the Volt as a "controllable fairway" and personal knowledge that these are Eagle-lineage control designs)

These are not radically spacious grid-encompassing discs. They are two stable control drivers, one slightly on the turn-maximizing side, and another similar but net-positive-stable variation. These are built to be a smart pairing; they are not meant to occupy the entire 0+ fairway spectrum. Expect a smart, workable, past-neutral distance-wrencher. Don't expect it to kill wind; that's a different slot entirely.
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  #702  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:16 PM
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Pwingles Pwingles is offline
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Originally Posted by Aim For The Chains View Post
lol. Sorry you bought a first run. POS shock? Doubtful... MVP takes tons of time to test discs and also addresses any issues which their customers feel need be AND LOOK WE WILL HAVE A REFINED SHOCK WITH MORE HSS. Where do you even think to make a comment like the above? MVP does not even have ratings for their discs so what are you even holding them to calling your shock a POS? No one said it would be a monster or flick?

People here are just...
Lol.
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  #703  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:18 PM
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AndyJB AndyJB is online now
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I have yet to see a Shock (or Volt, for that matter) that meets the definition of understable. The Amp, yes, Shock and Volt, no. I have 3 Shocks, my buddy has 2, and we got them all from different places (DN, Community, Marshall, Infinite and right here on the MP). They do have turn, but not understable at all. I don't have Mike C.'s power by any means, but still...even in his videos they do not appear to be truly understable. Lots of discs have turn, but if they still finish left (for RHBH) and can fight wind that makes me at least neutral, if not overstable.

Having said that, MVP's description of the Shock is definetly off. It has much more turn than my Volts, even my ones that are pretty beat up, but it does have a more abrupt fade. I found my Volts to have a more tru forward-penetrating fade though.

I like the Shock, it's even more Eagle-esque than the Volt and I love my Eagles.
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  #704  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:19 PM
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Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmart View Post
If you get that offended by someone saying POS it's going to be a rough life for you...
Its the lack of logical and critical thinking (here in general) that offends me when a company works very hard to please their customers and someone wants to bash them, comparatively to a company who sent out ILLEGAL products.

Last edited by Aim For The Chains; 02-19-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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  #705  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:21 PM
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Pwingles Pwingles is offline
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Originally Posted by Aim For The Chains View Post
Its the lack of logical and critical thinking that offends me when a company works very hard to please their customers and someone wants to bash them, comparatively to a company who sent out ILLEGAL products.
Im sure every single MVP disc ever made was marked EXACTLY what it was scaled at
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  #706  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:41 PM
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ZAMson ZAMson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmart View Post
I'm betting MVP goes back to this strategy for their next disc, every disc they sold under this strategy sold well and made people very excited. But when they jumped the gun and released the Amp and Shock without giving the testers time to try them out the discs didn't sell anywhere near as well. Part of the success of the Volt had to do with that long anticipation period where you get all pumped up waiting and reading all the info you can about the thing.
Dozens of nopes, respectfully. The same R&D produced all models so far. The testers had as much input on the Volt as they did on the other drivers, and all the other discs, which is none.

The testers can give you guys on the forums an idea of what to expect in the week or so prior to live retail availability, but the true R&D is in-house and private. I know discspeed and I and likely UPS and Mike C have in-depth discussions about theoretical flight stuff, but the skilled throwers in and around MVP are doing their R&D to great success. These aren't problems with the design being discovered, they're anomalies in production.

When the public finds a trend, it's some insight into nearly-imperceptible issues like dome that affect the flight, and this insight into the grand quantity is something that no handful of testers or factory checking would catch. Maybe if every disc off the line is 3D-scanned, they'd find that micrometer of dome that's throwing things off. But until thousands of people have tried it and some (a larger % than the ones just throwing poorly) find it consistently "off", they wouldn't know this stuff.

We put the Shock through a full test with ZJ, who's not loyal to MVP and is in fact still sponsored by a competitor. We didn't find problems with any of our test discs -- if we'd done this test 6 months before the Shock's release, we'd have signed off on it all the same. If we'd thrown 1,000 Shocks, maybe we'd have spotted some less stable ones.

Anyway just like problems that have come before, like Ion overmold placement or Vector/Axis dome, some oddities from the first large-scale run (no tests require large-scale production) are gonna be ironed out in subsequent runs. Which it would seem is still more than we get from most manufacturers. For all we know, the molding process for a new model begins with 75% wild error and they fine-tune it down to a 5% that they can no longer perceive without throwing each one. I'm all for the padded 300' wind-tunnel between factory and shipping rooms, but that'll have to wait.

tl;dr: It's not ideal that *anything* would have to change after a model reaches public hands. But the fact that they'll address it in future production is solid, and short of sending out half the run as free testers, the test-throwers won't spot freaks.
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  #707  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:56 PM
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Mike C Mike C is offline
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Good news. I received two tweaked shocks in the mail and as soon as I pulled them out of the package I noticed a higher PLH.

Here is a comparison photo: http://i.imgur.com/hPuJjf5.jpg

No promises I'll test them tonight. Ohio is alternating between rain, snow, and I'm gonna blow your house down style winds at the moment. They do look promising.

Also regarding FR shocks, I didn't throw any understable ones. The two I tested had a very mild high speed turn (-.25 to -.5 at the most, less than every Volt I've thrown) and flew similar to my worn 1.1 QOLF I used to throw all the time. These new ones look like they could be 0 hss at under 400' but obviously I'll have to throw them to know for sure.

If I get out tonight I'll post updates.
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  #708  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:52 PM
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Initial test: Cold, no warm up, steady 15-20mph headwind with stronger gusts, 5 throws a piece with 3 Shocks (1 old 2 new), throwing 10-20' high with some hyzer and 300-350' power. Every throw was into the headwind, intentionally.

Results: FR Shock was not wanting to hold the hyzer and wanted to turn over and finish right. New shocks were able to hold the hyzer the whole way through on a clean throw. On a flatter release aimed lower they wanted to stay very straight. On an intentionally OATy throw they would turn over a bit but visibly fight out of the turn before losing much altitude.

Based on my first impression it seems like they will be in between FR Shocks and Z Preds. I think everyone will be happy with them. I enjoy the FR Shocks but to me these will compliment the Volts better because I think there is a bigger stability difference between them.

PS no eta on a vid, computer isn't getting past POST.
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  #709  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:58 AM
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Stankyjahnke Stankyjahnke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aim For The Chains View Post
Its the lack of logical and critical thinking (here in general) that offends me when a company works very hard to please their customers and someone wants to bash them, comparatively to a company who sent out ILLEGAL products.
you must take a lot of things too serious. If i pay 20 bucks for an overstable fairway driver and i get a less stable drive than my volt. i might as well throw 20 dollars out the window. Atleast prodigy discs do what they say they're spose too. O no they made some that are over weight and recalled them and refunded them. MVP discs are great discs and high quality but i like getting what i pay for.
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  #710  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:59 AM
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Stankyjahnke Stankyjahnke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
Good news. I received two tweaked shocks in the mail and as soon as I pulled them out of the package I noticed a higher PLH.

Here is a comparison photo: http://i.imgur.com/hPuJjf5.jpg

No promises I'll test them tonight. Ohio is alternating between rain, snow, and I'm gonna blow your house down style winds at the moment. They do look promising.

Also regarding FR shocks, I didn't throw any understable ones. The two I tested had a very mild high speed turn (-.25 to -.5 at the most, less than every Volt I've thrown) and flew similar to my worn 1.1 QOLF I used to throw all the time. These new ones look like they could be 0 hss at under 400' but obviously I'll have to throw them to know for sure.

If I get out tonight I'll post updates.
and thats a pretty big difference in discs
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