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  #91  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:42 PM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
So here's what I would consider: put the basket where the white tee is. Put the tee about 750' back in the woods or on the edge of the woods on the south side, basically on the line where you have the blue route now.

So (and of course I'm guessing at distances here), someone who made two great 375' throws would be parked for an eagle three. Someone who could throw 400' or more could lay up to the water, more on the north side, which would cut down on the approach. (The risk of going for a big drive would be getting wet or hitting the trees on the north side of the pond.)

For most people, they would get a drive in the fairway, throwing as hard as they were comfortable, and -- here's what really makes it work for me -- rather than having to lay up, they could throw across the water to where you have the red tee. From there, they could go over the water to the pin, or maybe there's a righty hyzer that has a wet dropoff behind it.

Hope that make sense. I apologize that I'm on the road right now without access to a printer or scanner. Maybe someone who gets it can diagram it.


John - is this what you intended? Compensating for elevation loss, the effective lengths are much shorter - you can see my guess at what effective lengths are (hole gets effectively 3' shorter for every 1' of elevation loss - 40' per red line on the topo map).

There is a ton of elevation loss.....so this really turns this into a finesse hole rather than a power hole if playing the opposite direction.
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  #92  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post


John - is this what you intended? Compensating for elevation loss, the effective lengths are much shorter - you can see my guess at what effective lengths are (hole gets effectively 3' shorter for every 1' of elevation loss - 40' per red line on the topo map).

There is a ton of elevation loss.....so this really turns this into a finesse hole rather than a power hole if playing the opposite direction.
If we were to go this (opposite) direction, i would look at putting the basket more off of the water toward an old barn...there's a natural bowl effect there. I'll have to look through some more video and pictures or get back out there to get a better feel.
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  #93  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:19 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post


John - is this what you intended? Compensating for elevation loss, the effective lengths are much shorter - you can see my guess at what effective lengths are (hole gets effectively 3' shorter for every 1' of elevation loss - 40' per red line on the topo map).

There is a ton of elevation loss.....so this really turns this into a finesse hole rather than a power hole if playing the opposite direction.
Thanks, Dave. That's close. You've added an extra shot -- maybe because of the elevation -- and I was not envisioning the "north" route you show. Rather, everyone would throw that same south line. Then the bold ones would throw over the pond to the pin. Mere morals would throw north across the pond and then south back to the pin.

But look, we're on the verge of discussing two different things at once. Clearly the facts on the ground would require a drastic rewrite of my idea. So it seems that we need to keep that concept and reality as two different discussions. Otherwise it's going to get very confusing.

Adam, sorry if I took this all too far from where you intended. I just love trying to solve that kind of puzzle -- it's what I do for a living after all. Maybe when I get home next week I'll post another hole, and people can play with it.
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  #94  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:23 PM
johnrhouck johnrhouck is offline
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Steve, very cool observation. I can't really see it well enough on my phone to comment. Maybe tonight. I also owe you an email. Sorry to keep you waiting. Thanks.
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  #95  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
But look, we're on the verge of discussing two different things at once. Clearly the facts on the ground would require a drastic rewrite of my idea. So it seems that we need to keep that concept and reality as two different discussions. Otherwise it's going to get very confusing.

Adam, sorry if I took this all too far from where you intended. I just love trying to solve that kind of puzzle -- it's what I do for a living after all. Maybe when I get home next week I'll post another hole, and people can play with it.
To me, this is why I stay around DGCR.....to discuss courses. It is tough/impossible to be a true connoisseur and "critic" of great course design without knowing all the constraints put on the designer. As a DGCR reviewer/contributor, all one can do is experience the course and try to objectively size up the experience.

Doing what we are doing here is letting the imagination run wild without constraints (and as much knowledge that aerial photography and a crude topo map can provide). Talking about design concepts and theory is a blast. The harder part (and even more fun) will be for the eventual designer to solve the puzzle of the hole.....and of the entire course in practicality/actuality.

But, this is fun! Thanks for the opportunity, Sadjo.
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  #96  
Old 01-26-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrhouck View Post
Thanks, Dave. That's close. You've added an extra shot -- maybe because of the elevation -- and I was not envisioning the "north" route you show.
I added the extra throw, because I misread your post. I didn't read it close enough to get the idea of the chute in the initial post out of my brain.

The reason I like the extra throw is that it sets up the "tee pad" for your idea in varying places depending on how well you come out of the chute. This allows for a myriad more possibilities on how you want to approach the remainder of hole.....with the final water carry being a "fixed variable".

The top part of the clearing looks intriguing with a huge tree and terrain that kind of rolls off - see the far right of the clearing (this is looking from the original proposed blue tee pad):

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  #97  
Old 01-26-2013, 03:15 PM
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I actually think if you clear out those smaller trees on the far side that gap is big enough to play it as you originally designed it, perhaps moving the pad up a bit so the crossing is only in the 380' range.
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  #98  
Old 01-26-2013, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
I added the extra throw, because I misread your post. I didn't read it close enough to get the idea of the chute in the initial post out of my brain.

The reason I like the extra throw is that it sets up the "tee pad" for your idea in varying places depending on how well you come out of the chute. This allows for a myriad more possibilities on how you want to approach the remainder of hole.....with the final water carry being a "fixed variable".

The top part of the clearing looks intriguing with a huge tree and terrain that kind of rolls off - see the far right of the clearing (this is looking from the original proposed blue tee pad):

Dave242,

The top of the hill...the 2nd or 3rd landing area...that tree and shrub is all there is....the grassy/clear around it has anywhere from 20 to 40' separation from the thicker woods. The woods themselevs are not all that thick. There are also two different alley ways to consider. The one in the diagram or one back to the left...which I thought not as fair.

To play the other direction (as suggested) also requires some other changes to holes that would surround this hole.

What I've done is mapped out several dozen potential holes, as John once suggested as a good idea, with no regard for crossing fairways or shared fairways and then figure away to incorporate your best options into a design.

It looks like I'll need to look at some other options when it comes to utilizing the pond. The owner has suggestede filling it in thinking it would keep folks from going in the water to retrieve a lost disc.
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  #99  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:56 AM
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Two additional points to consider are predominant wind directions and sunset.

Assuming the winds are from the northwest in winter and southwest in summer. The OP's original flow where the blue tee was on the dam would have a left to right crosswind in winter and a tailwind in summer. Reversing the flow so the pin is on the dam would result in a right to left headwind in winter, a slight left to right headwind in summer and wind in your face during spring and fall.

East to west holes should be avoided as most rounds are played in the afternoon and players find it hard to see their disc in the glare of the setting sun. If the pin is placed on the dam, the hole should be one of the single digit holes #'s (1-9) and definitely no later than #15. The tree types, coniferous? or deciduous?, their height and relative thickness on the west and south west side of the dam may make this a moot point.
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  #100  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timber View Post
Two additional points to consider are predominant wind directions and sunset.

Assuming the winds are from the northwest in winter and southwest in summer. The OP's original flow where the blue tee was on the dam would have a left to right crosswind in winter and a tailwind in summer. Reversing the flow so the pin is on the dam would result in a right to left headwind in winter, a slight left to right headwind in summer and wind in your face during spring and fall.

East to west holes should be avoided as most rounds are played in the afternoon and players find it hard to see their disc in the glare of the setting sun. If the pin is placed on the dam, the hole should be one of the single digit holes #'s (1-9) and definitely no later than #15. The tree types, coniferous? or deciduous?, their height and relative thickness on the west and south west side of the dam may make this a moot point.
I didn't consider prevailing winds when looking at this property. Setting sun won't play as big of an issue here due to the surrounding mountains and this being in the valley. The bigger issues is the shadows cast in early evening. The sun is below the mountains a good while before the actual sunset.
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