Fair or foul?

[Sadjo]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

Not sure if tweaks would be needed. However, there's always the option to provide a drop zone on the other side of the water where players can start the hole throwing their 3rd shot if they do not wish to try throwing over the water. That's how we do it on the Steady Ed course at the IDGC. If your division must play the back blue tees and you don't think you can make the carry on one of the water holes, you can go to the Red tee, all which are all on the other side of the water (per Steady Ed's original design guidelines), and be playing your 3rd shot and not risk losing your disc.

If the water carry were only 250', would the hole....as is otherwise...be decent design wise? Playing slightly uphill after water carry to a 20' opening down an alley (picture of alley on first page of thread) work?

While the water has a challenge all its own, once over the water or throwing from the drop zone (if one is added) there's still the challenge of an uphill drive to best position yourself for a 3rd or 4th shot down the alley...which plays like an easier wooded par three from the opening.

[Disc Fiend]

Originally Posted by tarel

if you can't throw 300 over water you should not be on the blue/gold tee pad to begin with.

Agreed, but its 390 ft. though, big difference. I personally feel like 390 ft. is a little too long for a water carry.

[BionicRib]

plays like 360 with the tee 10ft higher up and all

[Cgkdisc]

If you mean not clearing the left side so the player only has to throw 250 to cross it then, yes. However, my preference would be making a "safe" landing area by doing some clearing on the left and challenging players with the option for a longer throw on the more direct route.

With regard to hitting the landing zone to set up the final upshot, it's important that the ideal landing area be visible enough from the previous landing position because that corridor to the pin looks pretty tight and the landing area suitable to set up a good shot looks rather small. It reminds me a bit of hole 12 at Moraine near Pittsburgh where I advised designer J. Gary Dropcho to make sure the blind landing area off the tee was big enough to provide a decent upshot angle. So he cleared a few more trees along the upshot route to provide more angles and options depnding where your tee shot landed.

[mashnut]

Originally Posted by Sadjo

If the water carry were only 250', would the hole....as is otherwise...be decent design wise? Playing slightly uphill after water carry to a 20' opening down an alley (picture of alley on first page of thread) work?

While the water has a challenge all its own, once over the water or throwing from the drop zone (if one is added) there's still the challenge of an uphill drive to best position yourself for a 3rd or 4th shot down the alley...which plays like an easier wooded par three from the opening.

Based on the picture, I think the shortest tee would be a plenty fair drop zone, and I like Chuck's idea of offering that as an option shooting 3 if a player simply doesn't want to risk losing a disc. That short tee easily allows players to go nowhere near the water.

[Cgkdisc]

For Mash and those near Chicago, the drop zone plan will be used on the revamped Fairfield course this spring. There are two forced water crossings. On new 7 from the Gold tee, players must cross the creek on their tee shot or they go to the white tee on the other side throwing their third shot (or they can start there throwing 3.) The other crossing has the option for Gold or White tee players to play their 3rd shot starting from the drop zone on the other side.

[BionicRib]

What about 18? Ob markers still?

That hole is somewhat comparable to the concept that sadjo is talking about here.....(of course the ob is opposite) but it still incorporates the "don't bite off more than you can chew" theory

And are you saying that 16 gold at fairfield can be started at the drop zone with your third shot. Or are you just referring to playing your 3rd shot from the drop zone after you didn't cross or went into the creek

Sorry to thread drift guys

[mashnut]

I'm not actually in the Chicago area anymore, but sounds very cool Chuck. BR - he's saying the idea is you can choose to go to the drop zone preemptively without risking a lost disc.

[BionicRib]

....Thats what golden retrievers are for... The water carries on those holes are not too bad IMO.....Cool looking!.....but not unfair by any standards

[mashnut]

Just looking at the map I agree, but if someone has to play the long tees in a tournament and isn't comfortable with it, I have no issue with them just going straight to the drop zone throwing 3.