The Value for money debate

[Pwingles]

Originally Posted by _MTL_

Oh, the “where does my money go” argument.

Well, the numbers should almost always work out. But there are many many many things that people forget about that are costs involved to run an event. For example, here are some common costs I run into when running events that have to come out of the total payout.

PDGA Sanctioning
OB Paint / Rope / Flags
Paper for scorecards
Paper for leaderboard cards
Ink to print scorecards / leaderboard cards
Ice / Water on the course
Course / Park Rental
Shipping of merchandise ordered

It adds up quickly.

This. A lot.

People dont realize how much effort that goes into organizing, getting sponsorships, fielding emails and phone calls, promoting, course maint., etc.
Its been said already, but it is truly thankless work. Not to say that everyone out there puts on a good event, or cares as much about the aport as you might as opposed to making money, but regardless of the end result, the vast majority of people who run or have ran several events, care a lot. Honestly if they didnt, they wouldnt run them, its not really worth it financially most of the time and the stress level that comes along with it is over the top.

Dealing with a park board or city official(s), stubborn property owner, neighbors, traffic, sponsors who dont come thru or take forever to get back with you, balancing costs, trying to raise money for a specific charity or your club by putting in hundreds of hours and dollars to barely make that back for the club, it can be very stressful and seem like its not worth doing.

So keep that in mind before you start thrashing the people who tried to give you a place to have fun that weekend.

[DavidSauls]

Originally Posted by discgolfbandit

I know this is a topic Ive read on here in the past, but wanted to gauge peoples opinions on pricing/value, that have come up locally.

One event was run, $25 a head. Players pack was a base plastic, standard disc. 20 players in total, 4 divisions. Each div winner took home a $20 voucher and an event trophy.

Is that good value for money? Is that the norm?

......Thoughts?

My value system is that the first $20 or $25, maybe more in certain places, is a good value for playing in an organized tournament. By which I mean, I would gladly pay that amount for a tournament with no players pack and no payouts, other than simple trophies.

There are dozens of threads about whether TDs should be able to make money. I think that, if any money is to be made, it makes more sense that it goes to the people who WORK first, before the people who PLAY.

[A rod]

Tds around here do a great job. Pros are paid out cash, all other divisions fight it out for gift cards to the tds disc shop. The amount of am winners just depends on number of entries. They usually throw in a t shirt or disc into the players pack. I like this because it allows purple to try new things out and have a souvenir. Ctp, rof, and distance comps for little prizes like towels or hats adds to the fun and experience.

I play for the competition. I'm signing up to win my division, at least thats the goal. At the end of the day I got to play a couple rounds with friends and take home a prize/trophy if I did well enough. After its over all you have is the memory, and getting a little something in a players pack is like nostalgia for down the road.

We're in a smaller area so I imagine this is pretty good.

Edit. Sign up is 25-40 for rec to advanced and pro is like 50.
For unsanctioned, its about half that

[mashnut]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

My value system is that the first $20 or $25, maybe more in certain places, is a good value for playing in an organized tournament. By which I mean, I would gladly pay that amount for a tournament with no players pack and no payouts, other than simple trophies.

There are dozens of threads about whether TDs should be able to make money. I think that, if any money is to be made, it makes more sense that it goes to the people who WORK first, before the people who PLAY.

That number sounds about right to me, $20-25 is a really reasonable price to pay for a couple organized rounds in a competitive setting and any other return is gravy. I played a 2 day, 3 round tournament that included camping and my entry fee was $40 (Ashleigh's was only $20 for the women's division). At that price, I was surprised to see great players' packs and a good amount of merch paid out, I would happily pay $60 for two players to spend a weekend camping and playing at a private course tournament with no merch at all.

[b-mart]

I definitely don't care where my money goes. The only tournaments I've been able to do so far have been unsanctioned with no divisions... And the top am in the area always enters and beats me by roughly 20 strokes. I could complain about it, but what's the use? I'm happy to pay for the experience alone. I'll never win a tournament. My drives usually max around 250' and my putting is inconsistent (but steadily improving). My average round on a typical NW par 3 course is around +12. So I could sit at home and play PS Move all day (and win), or I could get out, make friends, get some fresh air and exercise, and maybe hit that one shot of the tournament that has everyone talking (and take home a DFL trophy)...

[General Scales]

We are pretty lucky here in the Spokane area. There are two really good disc golf shops that really put the effort into making sure the payout is there for every division. Do I think they need to go to the extremes they do? Not at all. They both put in so much effort just to make these rounds happen that most of us are insanely grateful just for that. Is it nice that they put in the effort? Sure is, makes people want to come out and play as much as possible. Is it a losing situation for them? Not sure as all script is paid out to these shops where most people are going to walk in, see the huge selections and remember that the next time they need plastic or bags or straps. Then again, we have some pretty step entry fee's for our tournaments as well (most of which seems not to make it to Open players).

[freezermink]

i always try to step back and look at the big picture. when do i EVER pay to play? i could play every daylit minute without spending a dime. Some of the leagues are a few dollars etc, but for the majority of rounds, its free.

so now there is a $25 entry fee to compete with other players, with the possibility of getting some free schwag and possibly placing and winning some kind of prizes? questioning that seems ridiculous. Most of us pay more to fill our gastanks to get to these courses anymore.

the VALUE is in more than the fee goodie bag with a disc and some stickers in it. Its the time the TD puts in to organizing the event. Its in the local club that is sponsoring the event and keeping the local courses playable and FREE for you to play. its in the chance to better yourself, your game and socialize, meet some new people and have a great time. its a no-brainer to me.

[Texashammer]

I don't understand playing in a tourney only to get your money back, if you win. I would just go buy a new disc with my 20 and go hit the course.

[scarpfish]

As long as Am players continue to enter tournaments with a "what's in it for me" mentality in regards to prizes, and think TD's have to give back 100% of what they take in, the tournament scene will never reach it's full potential.

[dehaas]

I honestly think in the next few years you might start seeing more am only tournaments. Of course everybody likes seeing top name pros come into town and destroy their home courses, but the sport is at a weird point right now. There is a push to get more money pumped into pro events so more people can tour and gain exposure so that big time sponsors get involved. That's going to require a lot of work by the TD or whoever to raise extra cash to go towards a pro payout or else you won't draw the touring pros. Ams on the other hand you pay out in merch, so the $15 credit they receive is being used to buy plastic that has a true cost of 8-9 bucks or whatever. That helps ensure that all of the "hidden" expenses get covered and you don't lose money by hosting a tournament. All it takes is a tournament or two where a local club actually loses money and the desire to host more pretty much becomes non existent, especially considering all the effort that goes into planning and promoting the event.

There are definitely disc golf areas that can sustain large professional tournaments, and it's great that they do. I wouldn't be surprised though to start seeing more of a divergence between ams and pros, especially with all of the start up disc golf companies coming out of the woodwork. The am players are where you are going to take your money, and eventually somebody will start taking advantage of that. Dynamic Discs has the right idea, they promote their own tournaments and provide all of the merch and get their name out in the process.