The Value for money debate

[AndyJB]

RING OF FIRE!!!!

Simply answer. More fun than CTP, more chances to win. For my Birdie Bash we bought a butt-load of additional prizes...everything from more Vibram discs to stools to towels to everything in-between. We're doing 8 ROF rounds, so there's a good chance to walk away with some loot. But that's spending our own money on prizes.

As for PDGA tourneys, players packs do have specifications on how much value you are supposed to get, but that's all subjective anyway. As long as you're getting something, you should be fairly happy. I've done plenty of tourneys (non-sanctioned) with no players packs, anyway.

On the other hand, it's all about fun. And what's mroe funt han playing some rounds with new folks and walking away with some loot? That's why CTPs and Ring Of Fires work well and people enjoy them so much.

Best values, in my opinion, are always events like Vibram Birdie Bash (25 bucks for 2 discs and a shirt with additional prizes) Discraft Ace Race (20 bucks for 2 prototype discs and a bunch of swag) Legacy's Ace Races or, recently, Dynamic Discs 2 Disc Challenge (20 bucks for two discs and a ton of prizes available.) Those are "for fun" tournaments that bring in many non-competitive players because of the fun factor AND (mostly, arguably) for the great value.

Competitive events are abotu competing and testing your skills. As long as the price is reasonable, that should be good enough.

[GoldenThrower]

Originally Posted by Texashammer

I don't understand playing in a tourney only to get your money back, if you win. I would just go buy a new disc with my 20 and go hit the course.

Originally Posted by mashnut

Then tournaments aren't for you. I strongly believe that TDs should be compensated for all the time and effort they put into organizing events, and players should expect much less of their money to go into what amounts to a gambling pool. If we make the TD position one that doesn't require a ton of uncompensated hours and work just so that players can complain about trivial stuff, maybe we'd have more and better events. Instead, we expect TDs to lose money just so that the 18th place intermediate player gets to take home some extra plastic.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe Texashammer was directing that at TD's, but more to the OP. From my reading it seems like TH is just saying the entry fee is a sunk cost, so any small winnings coming back to him/her will just be reinvested into new plastic. Why stress out over not winning some of your $25 back? Just enjoy the experience for what it is, a DG tournament on a nice course with a chance to meet fellow DG'ers.

Apologies if I read that wrong.

[wake911]

Players packs are dumb overall to me. I feel i haven't gotten good use of my entry fee if i get a ****ty disc i won't throw, a t-shirt i won't wear, etc That is just throwing money away in my eyes.

Big events you can pay to buy a stamped disc. (i did this at BG Ams this coming year, bought a tourney FB, so cool) I want that reminder of the event.

I guess I just don't care about winning plastic i'll never use, getting a t shirt i'll never wear, etc. Give me a trophy that says i kicked ass! (or money if pro) and put any extra funds into course maintenance and new courses. Or charge lower fees if you don't want to "score money for the club" Or put the money into a big prize at the end of a season (baskets are always cool to get as a season prize...or entry into an exclusive tourney (worlds, am worlds, us am, usdgc, etc)

And i'm not good. I finish at the back of open tourneys and usually bottom of "cash" in advanced, so not like i'm raking anything in here.

[Ripper]

Originally Posted by TOURNEYPLAYER

I am really sick of this argument. The only answer to this is Pros should play for cash, top three or whatever get paid. everyone else gets nothing.

Ams should be trophy only. the winner gets a trophy of some sort. and if the TD wants to give a t-shirt or disc as an incentive to sign up sure. but otherwise no prizes for also rans. CTPs are cool, Ring of Fire. if you are able to get donations. but damn kids, this isnt field day at your middle school where everybody gets a little ribbon. nor should it be. we are grown (some more than others) men. stop expecting free ****. people work very hard for nothing and whiny little bitches expect primo plastic just for getting up before 9 am.

My thoughts exactly! Dead on.

[mashnut]

Originally Posted by wake911

Players packs are dumb overall to me. I feel i haven't gotten good use of my entry fee if i get a ****ty disc i won't throw, a t-shirt i won't wear, etc That is just throwing money away in my eyes.

Big events you can pay to buy a stamped disc. (i did this at BG Ams this coming year, bought a tourney FB, so cool) I want that reminder of the event.

I guess I just don't care about winning plastic i'll never use, getting a t shirt i'll never wear, etc. Give me a trophy that says i kicked ass! (or money if pro) and put any extra funds into course maintenance and new courses. Or charge lower fees if you don't want to "score money for the club" Or put the money into a big prize at the end of a season (baskets are always cool to get as a season prize...or entry into an exclusive tourney (worlds, am worlds, us am, usdgc, etc)

And i'm not good. I finish at the back of open tourneys and usually bottom of "cash" in advanced, so not like i'm raking anything in here.

As much as I would love to see tournaments like that, unfortunately the current setup with players' packs and paying out merch to ams is pretty ingrained. TDs are free to run that kind of tournament, but so many people expect the status quo that TDs are worried they won't get much turnout when they step outside the box on entry fees and payouts.

[Dave242]

What if the TD simply provided the venue, administration, scoring and reporting for a nominal fee? There would be no payouts (maybe small trophy), and the only reward was the competition, camaraderie, and seeing one's score/rating online. ......And then, another person ran an optional side-bet game at the event.

[texhop58]

I am running my first few events this year. I have found there are a lot of fees that people don't account for. Some have already been said like park rental and scorecards. I did not see insurance thing come up. Some towns require you to insure your event from injuries. I have wondered why Crowley bicent park didn't run a lot of tourneys. The city requires 150 fee plus 150 deposit plus proof of insurance. And there was a few other little things here and there. Also you need to think about td's expenses of travel, website set up, disc shipping. I am trying to run my tourneys just to have money invested back in park but I am still stuck with the bill on a lot. That being said some td's do better job with money then others. I also learn from my past two experiences. I paid the same price pretty much (maybe 5 less don't remember). But one I got a base challenger putter. The other I got a glow z stalker and a choice of one other disc. I chose a volt. Then they came back and threw in a wizard. I know I will play the 2nd company more often.

[freezermink]

Originally Posted by Dave242

What if the TD simply provided the venue, administration, scoring and reporting for a nominal fee? There would be no payouts (maybe small trophy), and the only reward was the competition, camaraderie, and seeing one's score/rating online. ......And then, another person ran an optional side-bet game at the event.

that pretty much sounds like the leagues we have going on through most of the year. Right now we have bagtag leagues which are non sanctioned, but once spring starts up there will be sanctioned singles and handicap leagues. Our local club provides the admin, scoring and reporting...

not saying its not a good idea, but i don't feel that it would really be a 'tournament' in that case. however, it would definitely be an option for areas that didn't have as much going on...

[Erthbndr]

Honestly, if you're worried about prize packs and payouts.... You should just not be competing. Just buy the stuff.

[GLong]

i like winning plastic because then i can sell it and pay for more tournament entry fees. who says ams don't get paid?