How wooded do we like it?

[techn9cian4life]

Originally Posted by grodney

Like so many things.

I see what you did there. Nice.

[ru4por]

Originally Posted by grodney

Like so many things.

HeeeHeeee..... you said wood and hills......heeeeeheeee

[Cgkdisc]

Statistically, a wide open hilly versus wide open flat course of the same length will have about the same SSA. In other words, hilliness in general does not directly affect the net challenge of holes. On the other hand, the more trees, the higher the SSA for the same length. So the indirect conclusion from your analysis is that hilliness adds more fun without being tougher. And some trees are needed to make it tougher but not too many.

Find a bunch of courses in the DGCR database that fit the most popular profile and see where they are located. It looks a lot like Upper Midwest terrain to me.

[Dave242]

Out of curiosity, I ran the numbers for 4.0+ rated (10+ reviewers), since for many people 3.5 is actually considered average, but the vast majority save 4.0+ for really good courses.

How Wooded	How Hilly	Count	Total	Percent
Lightly……	Mostly Flat	5	163	3.1%
Lightly……	Moderately	9	114	7.9%
Lightly……	Very Hilly	5	26	19.2%
Moderately	Mostly Flat	13	242	5.4%
Moderately	Moderately	55	290	19.0%
Moderately	Very  Hilly	47	98	48.0%
Heavily……	Mostly Flat	10	79	12.7%
Heavily……	Moderately	31	128	24.2%
Heavily……	Very Hilly	19	62	30.6%

How Wooded	Count	Total	Percent
Lightly……	19	303	6.3%
Moderately	115	630	18.3%
Heavily……	60	269	22.3%

How Hilly	Count	Total	Percent
Mostly Flat	28	484	5.8%
Moderately	95	532	17.9%
Very Hilly	71	186	38.2%

[teemkey]

It appears that how hilly a course is has a much larger affect on how we rate courses than how wooded.

In summary: a tiring hike is better rated than a skill challenge. Probably the basic human tendency to highly value anything hard to accomplish (and easy to describe <g>).

[Dave242]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

Find a bunch of courses in the DGCR database that fit the most popular profile and see where they are located. It looks a lot like Upper Midwest terrain to me.

Here is the top 40 Very Hilly that are Moderately or Heavily Wooded (tied at 76%) sorted by ratings highest to lowest (4.21):

MO - Branson Cedars Resort Treehouz DGC
WI - Highbridge Hills - Granite Ridge
WI - Highbridge Hills - Highbridge Gold
CO - Phantom Falls
WI - Highbridge Hills - Blueberry Hill
PA - Deer Lakes Park
OR - Horning's Hideout - Meadow Ridge
CO - Magic Meadows DGC
CA - Birds of Paradise
CO - Beaver Ranch/Conifer Park
VA - Hawk Hollow
WI - Winter Park
WV - Whippin' Post
OR - Whistler's Bend
CA - Sky High DGC
MO - Water Works Park
CA - Coyote Point DGC @ Lake Casitas
CO - Bailey DGC
ME - Sabattus Disc Golf - Hawk
OK - The Lodge - Island Course
IA - Wildcat Bluff
WV - The Woodshed
NM - Sipapu Ski & Summer Resort
PA - Camp Sankanac DGC
OK - The Lodge - Moccasin Creek
IA - West Lake Park
PA - Blue Mountain - Skyline Park
WI - Sandy Point Resort DG Ranch
NV - Zephyr Cove Park
UT - Solitude Mountain Resort
MI - Hickory Hills
WA - Lucky Mud DGC
NC - Renaissance Park
GA - Steady Ed Headrick Memorial
NC - Robert L. Smith Park
GA - Jim Warner Memorial
NY - Black Diamond DGC
NY - Hyzer Creek
VT - Base Camp Outfitters DGC
OH - Deis Hill Park

......and sorted by state:

CA - Birds of Paradise
CA - Sky High DGC
CA - Coyote Point DGC @ Lake Casitas
CO - Phantom Falls
CO - Magic Meadows DGC
CO - Beaver Ranch/Conifer Park
CO - Bailey DGC
GA - Steady Ed Headrick Memorial
GA - Jim Warner Memorial
IA - Wildcat Bluff
IA - West Lake Park
ME - Sabattus Disc Golf - Hawk
MI - Hickory Hills
MO - Branson Cedars Resort Treehouz DGC
MO - Water Works Park
NC - Renaissance Park
NC - Robert L. Smith Park
NM - Sipapu Ski & Summer Resort
NV - Zephyr Cove Park
NY - Black Diamond DGC
NY - Hyzer Creek
OH - Deis Hill Park
OK - The Lodge - Island Course
OK - The Lodge - Moccasin Creek
OR - Horning's Hideout - Meadow Ridge
OR - Whistler's Bend
PA - Deer Lakes Park
PA - Camp Sankanac DGC
PA - Blue Mountain - Skyline Park
UT - Solitude Mountain Resort
VA - Hawk Hollow
VT - Base Camp Outfitters DGC
WA - Lucky Mud DGC
WI - Highbridge Hills - Granite Ridge
WI - Highbridge Hills - Highbridge Gold
WI - Highbridge Hills - Blueberry Hill
WI - Winter Park
WI - Sandy Point Resort DG Ranch
WV - Whippin' Post
WV - The Woodshed

[DavidSauls]

Fun for discussion, but "lightly", "moderately", and "heavily" are vague, and defined by one person on each course. I never could figure out what that meant at Stoney Hill where there are some very tight wooded holes, some distinct fairways lined by dense woods, and some wide open spaces, and some holes that involve a little of each.

[Dave242]

Yeah.....I thought about that, but with the number of courses we are looking at that cause of error will probably swing both ways, so if there was a completely consistent way of assigning those values I believe the trends we are seeing here would be about the same.

Interestingly, I have only played 7 of the 40 I listed and I would really question Renny. Yes it has hills, but most of the holes are flat with only a few that have elevation change of >20'. I wonder how many others are like this.

[grodney]

Originally Posted by Dave242

Yeah.....I thought about that, but with the number of courses we are looking at that cause of error will probably swing both ways, so if there was a completely consistent way of assigning those values I believe the trends we are seeing here would be about the same.

Interestingly, I have only played 7 of the 40 I listed and I would really question Renny.

Yeah, Renny isn't "Very Hilly". Maybe somebody just set it like that so the SSE is closer to the SSA. Oh wait, maybe hilliness isn't in the SSE calc -- yeah, maybe not.

[mashnut]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

Fun for discussion, but "lightly", "moderately", and "heavily" are vague, and defined by one person on each course. I never could figure out what that meant at Stoney Hill where there are some very tight wooded holes, some distinct fairways lined by dense woods, and some wide open spaces, and some holes that involve a little of each.

I think those terms have a bit of a regional bias, just like the ratings. If everything in one area is completely flat, the course with one small hill is going to get labeled hilly. Same thing with the park style course among desert courses.