#41  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:28 PM
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Shuie Shuie is offline
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I like my courses to be wooded like the courses of Northern Wisconsin!!! it is interesting tho to see how the terms Lightly, moderate and heavily wooded get used as you travel from region to region.
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  #42  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:33 PM
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My idea of heavily wooded is when you can play the course in light rain on a summer day and not get wet.
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  #43  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:35 PM
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humchris85 humchris85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuie View Post
I like my courses to be wooded like the courses of Northern Wisconsin!!! it is interesting tho to see how the terms Lightly, moderate and heavily wooded get used as you travel from region to region.
I was thinking about this. What people consider heavly wooded varies quite a bit depending on where you are, as well as peoples opinions of what constitutes very hilly.
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:52 PM
Kingace Kingace is offline
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I like playing indoor courses
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  #45  
Old 01-30-2013, 07:59 PM
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humchris85 humchris85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mando View Post
My idea of heavily wooded is when you can play the course in light rain on a summer day and not get wet.
My idea of havily wooded courses is when you can play the course in heavy rain on a winter day and not get wet.
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  #46  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:17 PM
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KniceZ KniceZ is offline
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How much elevation change does it take to get rated very hilly? Are the courses in GA really VERY Hilly??? I would think the folks out west would laugh at that.
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  #47  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Yes, those comments are based on actual data. Remember we're comparing the effective lengths of the uphill holes and downhill holes with their flatland equivalents. And wind would affect them essentially the same. The flatland length of an uphill hole is roughly its length plus 3 times the elevation difference from tee to pin. For downhill holes in terms of challenge, you do not deduct 3 times the elevation difference. You use the actual length. You only deduct 3 times the elevation difference on downhill holes when determining how long it plays from a throwing energy standpoint.

So the flatland equivalent length of a course with elevation is going to be the direct line distance from tee to pin (following the dogleg paths) plus 3 times the net elevation differences on all of the uphill holes.
You never said anything about the effective length in your first post which makes that statement a little more sound, but I still ain't buying what you selling. How do you factor in rolling elevation that nets a zero elevation change? Or elevation as an obstacle to the side/s of the hole?
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  #48  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:53 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is online now
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Members of the DGCD designers group use a Hole Forecaster that can forecast the scoring average of a hole for each skill level before it's thrown. From data over the past 10 years, we've checked it out and that's what we've found regarding elevation adjustments within the precision available. No impact with rolling hills. Just the difference in elevation between tee and pin. Rolling hills are just more interesting and fun than a level shot.

We have additional adjustments in there I didn't mention. For example, if a lower skill level does not have the average distance to throw across a valley, they will effectively have a longer hole because they'll be throwing up the hill on their second shot compared with the higher skill level players that can clear it.

Note we're only talking about figuring out the effective length of a hole, not adjusting for other factors like precarious pins on mounds or sidehills. Those can be tougher due to elevation but doesn't come into play to determine the effective length of a hole.

Last edited by Cgkdisc; 01-30-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KniceZ View Post
How much elevation change does it take to get rated very hilly? Are the courses in GA really VERY Hilly??? I would think the folks out west would laugh at that.
North Georgia...the top 3rd of the state is considered foothills of the Smoky Mountains and extreme Northeast Georgia is in the mountains. Might not be as high elevation wise as places out west but when you compare North Georgia to, let's say, Indiana or Kansas, then yes, Georgia has plenty of courses you can consider hilly.

Check out the cover photo of the 2011 Innova Calendar or the November 2013 Innova Calendar. Those pictures are of Chattooga Belle Farm in SC. The mountains in the pictures are in Georgia....that course is on the stateline. I'd consider that to be a hilly course.
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  #50  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:34 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Yes, those comments are based on actual data. Remember we're comparing the effective lengths of the uphill holes and downhill holes with their flatland equivalents. And wind would affect them essentially the same. The flatland length of an uphill hole is roughly its length plus 3 times the elevation difference from tee to pin. For downhill holes in terms of challenge, you do not deduct 3 times the elevation difference. You use the actual length. You only deduct 3 times the elevation difference on downhill holes when determining how long it plays from a throwing energy standpoint.

So the flatland equivalent length of a course with elevation is going to be the direct line distance from tee to pin (following the dogleg paths) plus 3 times the net elevation differences on all of the uphill holes.
Just to play Devils Advocate: I bet this wouldn't hold true if you designed a course with significant elevation, and all of the elevation change played either either up or down hill...but not both. Strange as it seems, it's quite possible possible.

Say you had a very hilly piece of land, and were able to layout 9 out of 18 holes with significant downhill slopes - the kind that really add some distance to your tee shots. The other 9 holes net out to zero elevation change (or close enough to it). How can you always seem to be throwing downhill without ever throwing uphill? Simple: the course was designed so that the walk from basket to next tee goes uphill, and you throw downhill. While there's no net elevation change walking the entire course, you don't play the entire path you walk.

Hence, a course can play with a significant net elevation change. Wouldn't that have to affect SSA's, or did I miss something?

Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 01-30-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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