#121  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:11 PM
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mashnut mashnut is offline
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Exactly, and that's compared to only $10-15 more in entry fees and what seems like much more than that given out in players' packs and payouts. I would definitely play a trophy only event at that price, but I think you'd lose a lot of the people who talk about ROI and what they're getting out of the event.
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  #122  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:35 PM
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cjskier cjskier is offline
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This entry fee issue must be a regional thing. In northern california just about all events fill before the day of. And we have atleast one event a week. Certainly no reason to lower fees, if any thing we needed higher entrance fees. We definetly don't need to entice more players, especially am's.
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  #123  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:02 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mashnut View Post
Exactly, and that's compared to only $10-15 more in entry fees and what seems like much more than that given out in players' packs and payouts. I would definitely play a trophy only event at that price, but I think you'd lose a lot of the people who talk about ROI and what they're getting out of the event.
An interesting perspective. Charge $25 and have no payout, or charge $40 and have the usual merch payout. TD or club makes about the same either way. Sort of makes the payout system seem more reasonable.
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  #124  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:16 PM
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Martin Dewgarita Martin Dewgarita is online now
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I'm into competing for the trophy only thing, but I don't want a standard plastic "1st place!" trophy. I want something unique, something wood turned, glass blown, personally dyed, carved, unique piece of art that I will be proud to hang on my wall.
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  #125  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:41 PM
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JTacoma03 JTacoma03 is offline
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Originally Posted by archmage View Post
Why have scrip for the better amateurs? IMO if you want money or something worth money, play Open. All amateurs should be fine with trophy only (and entrance fees that reflect this).
Personally, I'd be fine with this as well.

However the justification for script is - not everyone wants to be a "Pro" player. In disc golf lingo we often just call it "Open", but what it is in practicality is professional vs. amateur players - and they have different mentalities and purposes for playing the game.

I know for myself, I'm definitely not going to go to Open unless I can adopt a regular tournament schedule, i.e. prioritizing disc golf tournaments above other things in my life. For that reason I'll play AM1.

By law you're supposed to be reporting these winnings anyway if you're Open...but we all know how disc golfers are with laws they don't agree with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
The idea is that with all Am prize payout removed, that the prize payout would be replaced by either a player's pack equally distributed to everyone or more preferably by a cheaper entry fee.
^ This is well said. Using what I suggested, AM2 would be a $20-25 entry always. You play for the pack and the chance at a trophy with other Intermediate level players. If you're gonna gamble on script or money, you pay a bigger entry.

This would also stop tourneys from padding pro purses with AM money, which IMHO is a shady method of pumping your own tourney.

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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
All of the evidence indicates that players do not play better nor worse regardless whether they are playing with a group of players better or worse. However, playing with better players may help you improve if you practice what you might have learned from playing with them.
Well said. Nice post.
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  #126  
Old 02-01-2013, 01:51 AM
Johnnyfats Johnnyfats is offline
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Call me a "reverse sandbagger" then, because next weekend I'm taking my 850 rating and diving into Intermediate. That might be better than getting called a bagger for shooting a 960 and a 953 at a tournament two weeks ago.
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  #127  
Old 02-01-2013, 03:49 AM
archmage archmage is offline
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Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
However the justification for script is - not everyone wants to be a "Pro" player. In disc golf lingo we often just call it "Open", but what it is in practicality is professional vs. amateur players - and they have different mentalities and purposes for playing the game.
Sure, I get it that not everyone wants to go Pro, I'm also an amateur that probably never goes Pro. But what I don't understand is why amateur disc golfers feel that they need to get something worth money when they do well in a tournament. I've competed in other sports, and got trophies and medals, never money or scrip. Why did I go to all those competitions if there was nothing to be gained out of them? Because I wanted to compete, and see if I can win. And when I did get a trophy or a medal, I felt good, and never thought that I should get money for this. That's what competition should be about - competing, not making profit. Making profit is for Pros.

But this playing for profit is so deeply ingrained in disc golf, I can see it's hard to change it even for amateurs. Maybe if PDGA changed it's payout guidelines to say that there should be no payout in amateur divisions, only trophies. Of course, some people would then make unsanctioned tournaments so that they can still play for money, but then they wouldn't get ratings for those tournaments, and for many people getting ratings also seems important. It would be interesting to see how it went, but I'm not holding my breath.
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  #128  
Old 02-01-2013, 08:42 AM
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DatRedDude DatRedDude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Dewgarita View Post
I'm into competing for the trophy only thing, but I don't want a standard plastic "1st place!" trophy. I want something unique, something wood turned, glass blown, personally dyed, carved, unique piece of art that I will be proud to hang on my wall.
If the trophy is unique to that event i could get down with that. However if its a generic trophy that just says champion, I would rather have a disc that says champion on it.
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  #129  
Old 02-01-2013, 09:07 AM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archmage View Post
Sure, I get it that not everyone wants to go Pro, I'm also an amateur that probably never goes Pro. But what I don't understand is why amateur disc golfers feel that they need to get something worth money when they do well in a tournament. I've competed in other sports, and got trophies and medals, never money or scrip. Why did I go to all those competitions if there was nothing to be gained out of them? Because I wanted to compete, and see if I can win. And when I did get a trophy or a medal, I felt good, and never thought that I should get money for this. That's what competition should be about - competing, not making profit. Making profit is for Pros.
I've been waiting for someone to explain why disc golf is so terrible compared to other activities that you have to bribe them to compete, but so far I've come up empty. Apparently running 13 miles is way more fun than playing disc golf because people will pay to do that by the hundreds with no chance of a positive ROI.

I think it will change if the powers that be start looking at actual data rather than catering to whiners. Of course people will say they want a positive ROI when asked. That doesn't mean that you'll definitely get more players that way, though. Nearly every other activity I've paid to compete in is evidence that's true. Yet in the very first tournament (for charity) I played in 5 months after I started playing I was called a sandbagger for getting second place in rec (it was the first tournament for the first place player as well and he got the same reception). I've never had that happen in any other competition, mostly because the structure of the event made sandbagging impossible.
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  #130  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:02 AM
nyrblue2 nyrblue2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Dewgarita View Post
I'm into competing for the trophy only thing, but I don't want a standard plastic "1st place!" trophy. I want something unique, something wood turned, glass blown, personally dyed, carved, unique piece of art that I will be proud to hang on my wall.
We're lucky to have an amazing artist in our DG community that had made some awesome trophies for tournies (first pic - one example - he's made a bunch of different designs) and doubles league champ (second).





Check his stuff out at http://www.abezart.com/index.html
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