Reverse sandbagging

[DavidSauls]

Much ado about nothing, in my opinion.

If a player wants to play up, what's the harm? Assuming, of course, he doesn't whine about the players he's playing with being "sandbaggers" because they're playing in their appropriate division.

If a TD doesn't want to offer lower divisions, perhaps he has good reasons. At any rate, he's the one doing the work so it's his decision. If you think his doing so retards the growth of the sport, well, anyone else can also TD a separate event and offer Rec & Novice divisions.

[krupicka]

Originally Posted by blackandwhite

payouts for rec around my area allllllways tend to go really deep..like 8 people 'cashing'

That's because MA3 is well attended and we follow the PDGA payout tables.

[Aubin]

Originally Posted by Huckfreely

What about the player with a 950-970 rating, who has all the plastic they need, and usually fails to cash in the Open division.
How do you keep that player coming back every weekend to a tournament?

I can answer that one.

my current rating is about 930... it's gone down from 948 the past few months because of stupid decisions (trying to play injured, mostly).

I took a few months off, healed up, practiced and I feel I'm personally playing at a 950-970 type of level now.

Last year, I played AM1 all year... probably 12 tourneys, about 7 PDGA. Sometimes I would suck, sometimes I would come soooooooo close to winning... lots of 2nds and 3rds but never that elusive first AM1 win.

First tourney of this year I had a decision to make, play AM1 again or just try out Pro open. I knew most of the pros playing, played with them all the time and I could hold my own but probably not win. I was so sick of winning plastic and played Pro Open. I wanted to see where i was headed, and how to get there, not try to be the best where I was comfortable being.

Out of 22 pro players (several sponsored by disc companies), I was tied for 5th after round one, and slipped to 12th after 3 terrible shots/decisions at the end of round 2. I would have won AM1.

IFFF (big if) you want to get better and even think you possibly have the time and skill to play Pro, then give it a shot. To answer your question, how do you keep coming back if you know you're not going to win, for me it's not about winning, it's about figuring out how to be the best I can possibly be. I know EXACTLY what I did wrong 2nd round and have worked on those mistakes, and I can't wait to try again.

[wake911]

Originally Posted by Huckfreely

What about the player with a 950-970 rating, who has all the plastic they need, and usually fails to cash in the Open division.
How do you keep that player coming back every weekend to a tournament?

They could do trophy only for open, normally a less expensive entry fee, to compete in Open. So less money donated, but still the chance to compete better. Eventually, they'll get close to cash, and will start playing full entry to get the cash.

[DavidSauls]

The question is for the player for whom 960 is "the best he can be". Whose physical and/or time limitations mean he's not going to progress any further, no matter who he competes against.

He's unlikely to play Open and stay Open, paying high entry fees and almost always finishing near the bottom.

[Aubin]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

The question is for the player for whom 960 is "the best he can be". Whose physical and/or time limitations mean he's not going to progress any further, no matter who he competes against.

He's unlikely to play Open and stay Open, paying high entry fees and almost always finishing near the bottom.

In my experience, it seems that once you have 5+ years under your belt, play continuously, stay healthy, and keep it pretty local, anyone who is solidly rated between 940 and 970 could have a super hot day and shoot a pair of 1000 rated rounds and compete for top pro cash. Happens all the time, at least around here.

[DavidSauls]

For all the different philosophies about what Am divisions "should" be available and what Am payouts "should" be---

Most of those options are available. You can run a tournament with one Am division, or just Advanced and Intermediate. Or Advanced and Rec, so the intermediates play advanced. Or Open and Intermediate, so everyone over 935 plays Open. You can run an Am tournament trophy-only, with low entries or regular entries and big players packs. There are few absolute PDGA restrictions, other than where the ratings cutoffs between divisions are and how deep you pay out, if you're paying out. And if those restrictions don't fit your philosophy, you can run non-sanctioned events under any system you like.

The problem is that if your idea is that "Players should do, not what they want, but what I think is best for them", they may not show up.

[DavidSauls]

Originally Posted by Aubin

In my experience, it seems that once you have 5+ years under your belt, play continuously, stay healthy, and keep it pretty local, anyone who is solidly rated between 940 and 970 could have a super hot day and shoot a pair of 1000 rated rounds and compete for top pro cash. Happens all the time, at least around here.

I know people who've settled into that mid-900s range and rarely shoot 1000-rated rounds. If they do, they're just as likely to shoot 900-rated rounds (which is why their rating averages what it does).

[Cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by Aubin

In my experience, it seems that once you have 5+ years under your belt, play continuously, stay healthy, and keep it pretty local, anyone who is solidly rated between 940 and 970 could have a super hot day and shoot a pair of 1000 rated rounds and compete for top pro cash. Happens all the time, at least around here.

For players whose ratings have stabilized, they will shoot more than 30 points above their rating 1 in 6 rounds. To do it twice in one day, it drops to 1 in 36 events. With 72 established players in an event, two of them on average will shoot both rounds more than 30 points above their rating. The average PDGA member plays about 6 C-tiers per year. So established players would expect to shoot two rounds more than 30 points above their rating in a tournament once every 6 years or so.

However, there are always newer players on the upswing in their skill set. So you'll see some of those players also shooting well.

[gcanter2376]

Well i think im rated at 877 or something like that. I also think im a little better than my rating suggests. In my area they only offer int, adv and pro. So int is crowded with several guys of different skill levels. I get called a bagger almost every tourney i play in whether i do well or not and its usually by guys who could stand to play in a rec or novice division. I think their idea of what the skill level in each division is has been tainted by them playing int and getting beaten often. I'm not bashing dg in my area by any means. My guess is they feel like it wouldnt be benificial financially to offer rec and novice. Basically im an 877 rated player who will prob move up to adv this spring.