#71  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:39 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
No, that's not the case. The same field that would play a league on the course will play worse as the tier ramps up. You know that's true where players choke up just a bit. They shake their head wondering why they couldn't throw down the 49 they shot in league last week when it got to the C-tier weekend. We have no examples out of 100 PDGA leagues so far where a league SSA came out higher than the SSA produced during an event on the same course. If it was different (and most were not) the league SSA was always 1-2 shots lower.
Honestly, I get what you are saying. I get the pressure aspect of it (but then in all that, I had the inverse effect in my pro career. I lit up courses in tournaments and couldn't hardly play them casually. Focus was always my thing and the more pressure, the more I focused, but anyway..).

But you can't honestly say that the fact the leagues have lower rated fields - by far - compared to normal PDGA events isn't a majority of this issue.
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  #72  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:11 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Repeat after me, "The average rating of the propagators makes no difference in the SSA produced. The average rating of the propagators makes no difference in the SSA produced." Yes, there are normal and larger statistical variances that disguise this principle in smaller fields. There are also differences when players are more familiar with the terrain being played, i.e. 950 rated plains players may have more trouble in the woods than those whose rating was produced on wooded courses. But when we have massive fields like Worlds, we can slice and dice the pools into groupings with different ratings ranges and they all produce the same SSA.
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  #73  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:17 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Repeat after me, "The average rating of the propagators makes no difference in the SSA produced. The average rating of the propagators makes no difference in the SSA produced."
This was recently tweaked, correct?

Because I know in the past this wasn't true.
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  #74  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:23 AM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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It wasn't precisely true at times in the past due to a shallow quadratic curve in the function. About six years ago we tweaked the formula to make the function work in a more linear fashion so player groupings at all rating levels would produce essentially equal SSA values.
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  #75  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:53 AM
wake911 wake911 is offline
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I love threads where Chuck discusses the ratings system in detail. I am a bit of a data nerd, so always enjoy these talks.
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  #76  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:56 AM
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grodney grodney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
It wasn't precisely true at times in the past due to a shallow quadratic curve in the function. About six years ago we tweaked the formula to make the function work in a more linear fashion so player groupings at all rating levels would produce essentially equal SSA values.
Chuck, you're spiking my heart monitor with all this stat pr0n. Who says reading a disc golf message board isn't exercise?!!
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  #77  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:14 PM
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Scoot_er Scoot_er is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
This was recently tweaked, correct?

Because I know in the past this wasn't true.


and

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  #78  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:51 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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In the old days, courses would have pages where you could see the SSA for any sanctioned round played on it.

My local course ranged from 46 - 51. I don't care what numbers you show or what curves you talk about, a course NEVER plays 5 strokes in difference without insanely crazy condition changes.
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  #79  
Old 02-06-2013, 12:57 PM
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Says who? We have no alternate way to measure a course rating with any validity. And even if we had that, it wouldn't tell us how tough the conditions were that round accounting for weather, lighting and competition pressure. That's why the way we do ratings averages out to the closest measure of how well players played that round. Again, on average. In any statistical system a single data point is only pretty good, a bunch of them is much better.
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  #80  
Old 02-10-2013, 11:48 PM
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urwatuh8 urwatuh8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
In the old days, courses would have pages where you could see the SSA for any sanctioned round played on it.

My local course ranged from 46 - 51. I don't care what numbers you show or what curves you talk about, a course NEVER plays 5 strokes in difference without insanely crazy condition changes.
Does your home course have multiple pin positions? I've played courses that could play more than 5 strokes differently on pin positions alone (Tyler State Park comes to mind.) Never mind wind, heat/cold, rain or snow, seasonal variation in foliage, grass length, etc.
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