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  #151  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:30 PM
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Chain Wrangler Chain Wrangler is offline
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Well I will put it to you like this. Here in Texas we don't put up with cry babies or men who tell women to stfu. If you don't like it don't play simple stuff. Or become a TD and run things your way and see how many happy people you will have. LIKE I SAID you can't make everyone happy. Carry on Happy Thursday


Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
how about you stfu. "Someone disagrees with my opinion so they are cry babies". I am so sick of intolerant people like you. How about you actually contribute to the discussion instead of insulting. Present a good argument for the side you are on. But you probably don't have one so you hurl insults instead.

Personally I don't like the Trophy-Only/"Better" Players Pack Idea. I have never been a fan of the AM Scam, but at least I got to choose the discs I wanted. This takes the Am Scam to a whole new level.
I do think a way needs to be thought up to allow TDs to actually make money from these events but this is the wrong way.
I can think of 4-5 players packs I have ever received (been playing tourns regularly since 06) were I actually liked and used the players pack items. Most of those other discs were sold to other people or are sitting in a bin somewhere in my house.
If this becomes the norm for Am Worlds, you can count on alot of other AM Only tournaments growing tremendously in size over the next year or so. Anyone I have talked to about this said they are not going now.

And I do think the payout scheme is dumb as it is. Too many people get paid out. I've always felt only the top 20% deserve a payout of any kind. And really I would prefer it only be the top 10 people (I know I am in the extreme minority on this).
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  #152  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
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Chain Wrangler Chain Wrangler is offline
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Originally Posted by chain_ape7 View Post
Wow...a lot of different opinions on this thread. Personally, we'll spend about $3500 to fly my family back to KS this summer and compete. I really hope to play well and it will be a great experience for my son. I couldn't care less about trophy, players pack, or script payouts. My son and I will come to compete. That's it. Life is short man.....how many opportunities will each of you have to play for a world championship title? Focus on what you are there to do, not payouts. Play out of your mind and find a way to win. Who wants 2nd place? Or 22nd? I don't care about ratings or experience or the depth of the field. The champion was the best player THAT WEEK. Quit whining about payouts and go focus on winning your division.
Well said. I am just a insult hurler apparently. I totally agree with what you said.
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  #153  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:49 PM
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smyith smyith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain Wrangler View Post
Well I will put it to you like this. Here in Texas we don't put up with cry babies or men who tell women to stfu.
dont care if you are a woman or not. equality, take it or leave it.
Quote:
If you don't like it don't play simple stuff.
oh no, don't discuss anything, accept everything at face value right? Discussion from all sides leads to better results then blind acceptance.

you still have not contributed anything of your own words to the discussion.
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  #154  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:35 PM
1978 1978 is offline
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@David Sauls - It doesnt work that way in retail. If an event costs $50 and you get 20 merch, you WILL spend it. 99% of the time. If an event costs you $30, less than 10% will purchase $20 in discs. Trophy ONLY am events will absolutly hurt new disc manufacturers (limited ability to get their discs tried), tournament attendance, and growth of the sport (through players trying new discs).

If I win $100 I might get 6 discs I've never tried. I will NEVER, NEVER buy $100 of discs I have never never thrown with "real" money. For me this has happened a number of times: try a disc with payout $ (a disc I WANT to try), love it, buy 5 more. I have never purchased another wahoo, dx aviar, vulcan, tern, pro Katana, etc, crap, crap.... and I have a bin of junk T-shirts I can't do anything with, and will never wear (running, disc golf, sports leagues included). Who here has too few over valued mini's?
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  #155  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:38 PM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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How about we leave it at this guys. Participating in any disc golf tournament is a discretionary expense. Am Worlds is no different. Even in years when there was a full payout hundreds of people who qualified for Worlds never signed up because dealing with the hassle and expense of going halfway (or further) across the country, staying in some strange place for a week, playing tournament golf for five days in the heat, rain, or whatever crazy weather mother nature served up wasn't worth it.

I'm certainly not going to call people who say that they aren't coming to Am Worlds because they aren't having a traditional payout as whiners. A lot of the people who say those sort of things probably weren't coming anyway. If there was a traditional payout of some degree, and those folks did come, and they didn't finish good enough to qualify for it, well they're walking away with less than they would have under a no payout system. And if they think a large players pack/no payout tournament = Am scam, well news flash, a smaller or no players pack/traditional payout tournament generally also = Am scam. The TD makes the same markup on the merch either way. The only difference between the two is how the merch is distributed.

So, if people don't like how Am Worlds is going to be run, by all means, stay home, or go participate in a run of the mill B-tier somewhere that week with a traditional payout. That's your prerogative as a disc golf consumer. But please, don't come on DGCR and tell us about how you and your friends (who for all we know aren't PDGA members, or could be the stuffed animals on your bed) are not coming. Saying such on here doesn't mean that your spots are going to remain eternally empty and unfilled because you posted that. For every person who considers the no payout policy a deal breaker, there will probably someone to take your place. If you're truly not coming, well, there was (or will be) likely another reason, which had nothing to with tournament payout.
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  #156  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:47 PM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chain_ape7 View Post
Wow...a lot of different opinions on this thread. Personally, we'll spend about $3500 to fly my family back to KS this summer and compete. I really hope to play well and it will be a great experience for my son. I couldn't care less about trophy, players pack, or script payouts. My son and I will come to compete. That's it. Life is short man.....how many opportunities will each of you have to play for a world championship title? Focus on what you are there to do, not payouts. Play out of your mind and find a way to win. Who wants 2nd place? Or 22nd? I don't care about ratings or experience or the depth of the field. The champion was the best player THAT WEEK. Quit whining about payouts and go focus on winning your division.
and BOOM goes the dynamite. I hope you and your son enjoy the trip. If you plan on booking a hotel and want a discount at the Holiday Inn Express give me a PM. The manager is good people.
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  #157  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:51 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
@David Sauls - It doesnt work that way in retail. If an event costs $50 and you get 20 merch, you WILL spend it. 99% of the time. If an event costs you $30, less than 10% will purchase $20 in discs. Trophy ONLY am events will absolutly hurt new disc manufacturers (limited ability to get their discs tried), tournament attendance, and growth of the sport (through players trying new discs).

Fair enough. I think I was talking about it from my perspective as a player.

Certainly, the system helps disc manufacturers.

My example assumed the $30 going to payouts, in merch. Payouts don't bother me as much as players packs. But to be fair to TDs, it should be been something like, "Rather than charge me $50 and give me a $20 players pack (with $30 going to payouts), charge me $35, don't give a players pack, put $30 towards payouts and $5 profit.

So the TD still gets almost the same profit, on the $5 and $30 in merch, that he would have on $50 worth of players pack and payout.
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  #158  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:53 PM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain Wrangler View Post
Well said. I am just a insult hurler apparently. I totally agree with what you said.
Me too I guess. Suddenly not wanting to play with a guy who only cares about the financial gain makes me intolerant of others.


A tournament I don't control who I play with and doesn't matter unless they are being discourteous I care not why they are playing. Given the option though of course I'd choose to play with people who enjoy the competition not the payout. I like their excitement on a good shot to be genuine not financially motivated.

In a casual round I don't even like the company of most of my friends and these are the people I choose to spend time with. I play much better alone and with earbuds in. Why would I want a guy who's opinions are so beyond my sense of understanding all we do is argue the whole round? That's what this place is for.
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  #159  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:54 PM
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scarpfish scarpfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
@David Sauls - It doesnt work that way in retail. If an event costs $50 and you get 20 merch, you WILL spend it. 99% of the time. If an event costs you $30, less than 10% will purchase $20 in discs.
Which essentially means that its a forced purchase. I'm sure we all have closets full of forced purchases that we've gathered from tournaments over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Trophy ONLY am events will absolutly hurt new disc manufacturers (limited ability to get their discs tried), tournament attendance, and growth of the sport (through players trying new discs).
Ahh, you underestimate the appeal of a well stocked vendor stand.

Last I checked, even a no players pack/no payout event still required discs to play in them. New players need discs. If longtime players have enough discs, well that's just a sign that the market is saturated.

And if such a tournament cuts manufacturers (either new or established) out of the loop, oh well. It is the responsibility of disc manufacturers to continue to make impressive products for us to buy voluntarily. It is not our responsibility as consumers to keep them afloat by having their discs, which we may not like, bundled in with a tournament entry.

This is actually one thing I like about DD events. Instead of getting a tourney stamped disc of some mold I don't throw, I get a $15 voucher to pick up a mold that I do throw. I can't speak that its going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a large voucher in the player's pack for Am Worlds that could be spent at the DD flagship store downtown.
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  #160  
Old 03-21-2013, 05:04 PM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
I can't speak that its going to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a large voucher in the player's pack for Am Worlds that could be spent at the DD flagship store downtown.
I'd say you might have a future in fortune telling. There might also be large amounts of misprints on the cheap if they aren't all gobbled up at the GBO.
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