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  #181  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:43 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbanderson View Post
Trophy only makes sense for collegiate and high school tournaments and championships. So do away with the word amateur when discussing our current structure and only apply it to collegiate/high school formats.

You all need to let go of the terms professional and amateur in their literal meaning and look at the reality of who plays in tournaments and what they are wanting out of it. Most current PDGA participants are 30 somethings that simply want the tournament experience.

A payout is just another part of that experience. Take away the payout and you're taking away part of the tournament experience. Just because the PDGA utilizes those terms does not mean anything.
If you want to win stuff you should go Pro for that experience. Or make side bets with other Ams. I'm a 30 something Am and don't think Am payout is part of the experience. It's really ridiculous to me..."and winner of 23rd place in the Am division and taking home 3 Bosses, 2 Rocs, and a Teebird is so-and-so" *crowd goes crazy* Why should an Am win more than a Pro in any tourney?
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  #182  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:15 PM
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elnino elnino is online now
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where do i sign up for this? 35 dollars for 175 dollar players pack!!! and three rounds. i'm not sure i even understand the problem?

funny later he says 200+ if he went any longer maybe the players pack woudl be 225 or 250.

Stop the baggers not the people from coming out.
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  #183  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:22 AM
1978 1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by wake911 View Post
I agree. Heck, i might even buy more than that $20 if you have a disc store on-site that i can buy discs I want to throw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Fair enough. I think I was talking about it from my perspective as a player.

Certainly, the system helps disc manufacturers.

My example assumed the $30 going to payouts, in merch. Payouts don't bother me as much as players packs. But to be fair to TDs, it should be been something like, "Rather than charge me $50 and give me a $20 players pack (with $30 going to payouts), charge me $35, don't give a players pack, put $30 towards payouts and $5 profit.

So the TD still gets almost the same profit, on the $5 and $30 in merch, that he would have on $50 worth of players pack and payout.
Perfect. No players pack unless items are truly donated for promotional purposes (coupons, etc.)
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  #184  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:23 AM
1978 1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Why not? Worlds invites should be done like Beaver State Fling open sign ups. We will use advanced as an example. So if you put the points to get into world up to 1250 those player get there invites. Then like a month later send invites for players over 1000 points and so on.
The event for this is Am Nats. Have to qualify, then only people over a certain rating get in.
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  #185  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:29 AM
1978 1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Why have a tiered invite with tiers that would generate less than a full event?

If, for example, you have 500 spots at AmWorlds, and 25% of invited players tend to sign up, the first tier of invites should be 2,000 players. It wouldn't accomplish much to invite 400 people and get 100 entries; then another 400 people and get 100 entries; etc.

Prior to last year, it didn't matter a bit. Either you got an invite and went to Worlds, or didn't get an invite and went to Worlds, if you wanted to go. At the very least, the threshold for invites should be what is likely to fill the event, or a little less.
I think you are correct, however, I also think that it dilutes the prestige of the event. In your example, inviting 500 ppl get the best 100 in first. Inviting 2000 might mean only 50 of the best get in. Also the event doesnt "feel" as special. I mentioned Am Nats, and it is one of the reasons that I decided to go back. The "feel" of that event is so cool...and you know everyone there is rated 940ish or better OR played well in a good tournament to get there. Its a way better feeling to be invited to that than worlds when some people have 500 pts and some have 10000.
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  #186  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:37 AM
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smyith smyith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
I think you are correct, however, I also think that it dilutes the prestige of the event. In your example, inviting 500 ppl get the best 100 in first. Inviting 2000 might mean only 50 of the best get in. Also the event doesnt "feel" as special. I mentioned Am Nats, and it is one of the reasons that I decided to go back. The "feel" of that event is so cool...and you know everyone there is rated 940ish or better OR played well in a good tournament to get there. Its a way better feeling to be invited to that than worlds when some people have 500 pts and some have 10000.
I have never had the goal of trying to get into worlds, theres never been a need to.
Am Nats however, has been the big one that I have always wanted to qualify for. The tournaments I know that are qualifiers I practice extra for, try harder, and care more. To me winning Am Nats is the pinnacle for an Am, Worlds not so much. And if you force that same prestige into Worlds it will fill. It may not happen the first year or two, but it will not take long for there to be that extra effort to qualify.

A pro example for you, the Vibram Open is a qualifier tournament. I would say 80% of the Pros that I know would go to Vibram over Worlds just for the prestige factor. And I know of 1 who will be attending Vibram over Worlds (which is only a 2hr drive away this year). That says something about the feeling of prestige when it comes ot invite/qualifier tournaments.
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  #187  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:34 PM
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elnino elnino is online now
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i think vibram is bigger than worlds also because it counts twice as much for the player of the year thing. so that makes it literally twice as important!
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  #188  
Old 03-25-2013, 12:31 AM
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In theory I like the idea DD is going with and think it is very good in a number of way

In reality it did at all not go down like it said in the OP at the DD event I played this weekend.
1. The Rec division did NOT get their money back in the players pack and play trophy only. Instead they got a 1 disc players pack and got paid out based on performance just like every other Am.

2. Ams did not receive a players pack voucher so they could pick whatever they want. Only one mold of disc was offered for the players pack so it was exactly the opposite since the only thing we got to choose was the color of the disc.

I don't have any complaints about the event itself, everything went just fine and I quite enjoyed it. But I did want to point out, in my experience at a DD event, it was nothing like how they described their events which "are all run almost identical".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamic Discs
We have experimented with several different models for our tournaments but as a whole, they are all run almost identical. Amateur players almost always receive a $15 merchandise voucher as their player pack so that they can pick out whatever they want. The recreational division was converted to trophy only for the 2012 season and remains that way for 2013. These recreational players usually pay around $35 and receive a players package worth well over that and often compete for additional prizes.
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  #189  
Old 03-25-2013, 01:01 AM
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Allurex Allurex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamH View Post
In theory I like the idea DD is going with and think it is very good in a number of way

In reality it did at all not go down like it said in the OP at the DD event I played this weekend.
1. The Rec division did NOT get their money back in the players pack and play trophy only. Instead they got a 1 disc players pack and got paid out based on performance just like every other Am.

2. Ams did not receive a players pack voucher so they could pick whatever they want. Only one mold of disc was offered for the players pack so it was exactly the opposite since the only thing we got to choose was the color of the disc.

I don't have any complaints about the event itself, everything went just fine and I quite enjoyed it. But I did want to point out, in my experience at a DD event, it was nothing like how they described their events which "are all run almost identical".
I've been to a lot of DD events (they're big in this part of the country) and they were almost all run the way the OP described. I paid $30-40 and got $10 for merch as my player's pack.

A couple of weeks ago I played a tournament that was more like you described. We payed the same amount but instead of a voucher we got to pick out a new First Run DD Trespass. So it was worth more than $10 but less choice obviously.

I wonder if DD having their own discs will change the template for their events permanently.
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  #190  
Old 03-25-2013, 01:05 AM
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18Down 18Down is offline
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When running as many tournies as they do I can see how some don't get the attention/support as others do. But kudos to them for running more tournies than probably any other crew!
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