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  #11  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:23 PM
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smyith smyith is offline
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and the Am Scam takes a whole new meaning. No thanks....all interest lost in this years Worlds.
Just what I want...a players pack with nothing I throw or need instead of getting a disc or two I will actually use.
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:23 PM
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Stemplejg Stemplejg is offline
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Awesome Letter to set the record straight!
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:54 PM
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goody goody is offline
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Good post from Jeremy. Seems like a reasonable format and the player's pack should be pretty cool.
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  #14  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:31 PM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
and the Am Scam takes a whole new meaning. No thanks....all interest lost in this years Worlds.
Just what I want...a players pack with nothing I throw or need instead of getting a disc or two I will actually use.

Are you being serious? Did you read the statement? It says a large player pack and the value. Can't believe there won't be some world's stamped discs you can collect or sell if you're that worried about money. Winners still get baskets and vouchers along with the competition and extras you would expect. You're honestly saying you are passing on an annual event because you won't get a gift certificate for coming and nothing more? You'll be missed.
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  #15  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:48 PM
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giles giles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyith View Post
and the Am Scam takes a whole new meaning. No thanks....all interest lost in this years Worlds.
Just what I want...a players pack with nothing I throw or need instead of getting a disc or two I will actually use.
from the looks of things, you have a better chance of not going home empty handed with this new format...
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:57 PM
Apoth Apoth is offline
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I wasn't aware of the other thread and, now that I've seen some of the comments here about that thread, I'm scared to go look. Can someone give me the cliffs notes version on what the modified format is?
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:17 PM
Casual Squishy Casual Squishy is offline
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Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
I wasn't aware of the other thread and, now that I've seen some of the comments here about that thread, I'm scared to go look. Can someone give me the cliffs notes version on what the modified format is?
It was a thread a guy posted about am worlds that got derailed pretty quickly into one of those whole am vs pro, cash vs plastic, definition of the word word is etc.
By about page 4 or 5 it didn't have much to do with this thread
Not sure if the OP ever even posted again on it, and the thread title even turned out to be wrong.
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Violets caddy Violets caddy is offline
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It's about damn time they stopped paying out half the field and started awarding people who actually brought their A game. I like it.
The whole point is to prove who the best Ams are and not making people feel special just for showing up, glad someone finally figured that out.

Hope the organizers of pro worlds are paying attention
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:40 PM
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jenb jenb is offline
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Since I'm mentioned in Jeremy's post, and my response was not posted here, I'd like to quote it below for posterity.

Quote:
Hi Jeremy. Thanks for joining the discussion. You must know I recognize and value your professionalism, or I wouldn't have asked DD to present my tournament in July. I also recognize you may be right about the proliferation in tournaments having an impact on attendance. After all, with tournaments practically every weekend, we can't play them all. Good luck to you with this event. I hope it is as big a success as you expect.
That said, I don't think the trophy only format for rec has resulted in less perception of a bagging problem at DD tournaments. The people I talk to (who now avoid DD events) all complain about the unrated players throwing one or more advanced rated rounds and running away with the trophies more often than not.

I was curious to see if that was true, so I looked at all of DD's tournaments since January 1 2012, which are supposed to be trophy only in rec. I'm not sure if that's true of the events "presented by" or "sponsored by" DD, but I have included those events in my analysis for now. I excluded the one round challenges from my analysis, because there's a lot of volatility in ratings that could produce a false impression from a single round. I also excluded supertour events, as only PDGA members can play those. What I found was that, out of 26 events, an unrated player took the rec trophy home 11 times. That's not half the time, but it's pretty close (42%).

As for those unrated players throwing advanced rated rounds, I saw five of those winners throw at least one round rated over 935 (i.e., 957, 954, 946, 939, and 939). So I think the perceptions held by the rec rated players who no longer attend DD tournaments are somewhat valid, and there is obviously still a problem that was not solved by making rec trophy only. If anything, I think the perception of the problem is that it is worse, as there can now only be one "winner" in rec, and the players rated below 850 feel like they stand no chance at all.

As I've said before, I think the only way to really deal with the problem is to prevent unrated players from playing ratings protected divisions. TDs have the discretion to force non-PDGA members to play a different division, and I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, the PDGA prevents TDs from denying entry to rec to new PDGA members who don't yet have a rating. In order to really address the issue effectively, that rule needs to be changed. However, a TD can still drastically reduce the perception of bagging by at least requiring non-PDGA members to play in a non-ratings protected division for which they are otherwise eligible.

Last edited by jenb; 03-05-2013 at 08:43 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Casual Squishy Casual Squishy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Since I'm mentioned in Jeremy's post, and my response was not posted here, I'd like to quote it below for posterity.



That said, I don't think the trophy only format for rec has resulted in less perception of a bagging problem at DD tournaments. The people I talk to (who now avoid DD events) all complain about the unrated players throwing one or more advanced rated rounds and running away with the trophies more often than not.

I was curious to see if that was true, so I looked at all of DD's tournaments since January 1 2012, which are supposed to be trophy only in rec. I'm not sure if that's true of the events "presented by" or "sponsored by" DD, but I have included those events in my analysis for now. I excluded the one round challenges from my analysis, because there's a lot of volatility in ratings that could produce a false impression from a single round. I also excluded supertour events, as only PDGA members can play those. What I found was that, out of 26 events, an unrated player took the rec trophy home 11 times. That's not half the time, but it's pretty close (42%).

As for those unrated players throwing advanced rated rounds, I saw five of those winners throw at least one round rated over 935 (i.e., 957, 954, 946, 939, and 939). So I think the perceptions held by the rec rated players who no longer attend DD tournaments are somewhat valid, and there is obviously still a problem that was not solved by making rec trophy only. If anything, I think the perception of the problem is that it is worse, as there can now only be one "winner" in rec, and the players rated below 850 feel like they stand no chance at all.

As I've said before, I think the only way to really deal with the problem is to prevent unrated players from playing ratings protected divisions. TDs have the discretion to force non-PDGA members to play a different division, and I think that's the way to go. Unfortunately, the PDGA prevents TDs from denying entry to rec to new PDGA members who don't yet have a rating. In order to really address the issue effectively, that rule needs to be changed. However, a TD can still drastically reduce the perception of bagging by at least requiring non-PDGA members to play in a non-ratings protected division for which they are otherwise eligible.
mistake.

Last edited by Casual Squishy; 03-05-2013 at 08:50 PM.
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