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  #61  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:52 PM
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  #62  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
Have you done a comparison of DD tournaments prior to the trophy only tournament change or compared the incidents of bagging in other non-trophy only tournaments? I may have missed it, but just saying that unrated people won 40+% of the time in Rec doesn't give much context. There's no way to say if that's a higher occurrence of bagging than any other event or not.

Also, FWIW, I know plenty of rated players whose rating puts them in Rec and they've won Rec by throwing rounds above 900. Around here, at least, you need to throw about that level to win in Rec.
I thought about doing those comparisons, but I don't have the time. But also, I think, the bottom line is that there are some people who aren't happy with the trophy only for rec thing, and their complaints seem substantiated. 42% is a big number, even if it is down from before (which has not been established).

Perhaps more importantly, even if there is less bagging in rec due to the trophy only thing, there's no way that decrease makes up for having exactly one winner, especially to someone who is not going to be satisfied with a fat player's pack in lieu of a chance to compete with a realistic chance of winning something.

I really appreciate that Jeremy has tried several different things aimed at making the lower rated players happier, but I know Jeremy also appreciates honest feedback. I don't think that he is getting that feedback from the player's who have started avoiding his tournaments because of trophy only in rec.

The trophy only thing doesn't affect me as much as the guys rated under 850, since I can play FA1 when that's available. But DD doesn't offer Novice, and I have a hard time getting my spouse to go with me to DD or SLD events now (he's 840ish rated). His similarly rated friends from other tournaments also tend to avoid the trophy only rec division as well. And I know some of them were kind of excited about it at first, and gave positive feedback about it to Jeremy. But they didn't really realize until later that the unrated players were going to have such an impact on the competition for the trophy. Now they do nothing but complain about that. From what I've seen, they prefer to deal with the baggers with a chance of cashing, because it's something to aim for.
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  #63  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteyBear View Post
Get rid of this "what can I get out of it" mentality. Ridiculous. Do you all complain as you sit down in an NFL stadium, paying $100+ for nose bleed seats and $15 nachos? You get jacked up on that, but you enjoy the experience don't you?

Let me get this straight, you pay ~$100 to play, you get $200 in merchandise/vouchers back, you get all kinds of events and such, you get awesome courses to play, and yet there is still complaining? Heck, if I won (which I won't) and I only got a trophy, I'd be pumped. Out of 500 competitors I beat you all, I wouldn't be thinking "man, what a weekend, good thing I'm getting some more discs out of this, otherwise it wouldn't have been worth it!"

If you are complaining about the trip costs, then this event isn't for you in the first place. Play for the competition and environment; more than likely you got kicked out of your beer league softball team because you thought your tshirts sucked and you didn't get any free balls for winning last place in the playoffs.
If you are talking about the side events those cost extra just FYI. Awesome courses is your opinion. To me a long course on a ball golf course isn't awesome.
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  #64  
Old 03-06-2013, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
Have you done a comparison of DD tournaments prior to the trophy only tournament change or compared the incidents of bagging in other non-trophy only tournaments? I may have missed it, but just saying that unrated people won 40+% of the time in Rec doesn't give much context. There's no way to say if that's a higher occurrence of bagging than any other event or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
I thought about doing those comparisons, but I don't have the time.
Yet you had time to go through 26 tournament listings, see in how many of them the rec division was won by an unrated player, punch 11 divided by 26 into a calculator, and then pronounce this finding as gospel truth that there is a sandbagging problem.

You didn't have time to see if there were any repeat offenders. You didn't have time to take into consideration that the tournament culture is a bit different in other places where DD does tournaments, and because of that, it might contribute to a higher percentage of non-rated people winning MA3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
But also, I think, the bottom line is that there are some people who aren't happy with the trophy only for rec thing, and their complaints seem substantiated. 42% is a big number, even if it is down from before (which has not been established).
The only thing that you've substantiated here is that you like to gripe. That 42% has a context behind it that you're ignoring because it shoots holes in your argument.
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  #65  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MrRaider View Post
no you dont fold up like laundry.. you guys fly away with your tornados almost every year and then Oh well we goin to rebuild and again and again and again.. real bright peeps out there lol .. I might just go play de laveaga or head up to lake tahoe and play all those beautiful courses we have up there.. competition, ya i played am worlds last yr and top 20% were pro's playin Am.. enjoy tornado season KS

This might be the single worst post I've seen on this forum. Hilarious.
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  #66  
Old 03-07-2013, 02:52 AM
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I really think the guys at DD are on the cutting edge of what will help grow the sport in the future. Enough Said.
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  #67  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SteezeOG View Post
That's usually the way it is....but I take it you haven't played a DD event. I've never talked to a single player who walked away from one of their events who didn't feel like they got a lot more than they paid in. That goes for gear and the experience.
Played in several actually. Give me a voucher for $15 and I get to pick what I want. Thats great. I never bashed DD I actually enjoyed the experience. I think its the idea of putting up a lot of $$ for these "major tounies" and them telling you get double the value of the cost. Bring the cost down to $20 and give me $40 in "so-called" value. With trophy only tournies don't charge $100 to give $200 in value. Its silly.

How much is this tournament anyway??
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  #68  
Old 03-07-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 18Down View Post
Played in several actually. Give me a voucher for $15 and I get to pick what I want. Thats great. I never bashed DD I actually enjoyed the experience. I think its the idea of putting up a lot of $$ for these "major tounies" and them telling you get double the value of the cost. Bring the cost down to $20 and give me $40 in "so-called" value. With trophy only tournies don't charge $100 to give $200 in value. Its silly.

How much is this tournament anyway??
but play for a voucher? Buy yourself a gift certificate and save your time. Tournaments (especially world's) should be about the competition and experience. I just don't think a lot of tournament playing amateurs play for the same reasons I do. I hope I only encounter this on the forum and not in the tournaments I play this year.

I'm sure Jeremy would love to be able to charge you all twenty bucks but how could anyone do that with putting on everything he listed?

No disc golf TD is wearing Prada, driving a sports car, or eating lobster every night. They wear a donated dri fit, eat pizza buffets, and drive ten year old imports that get good gas mileage. No one is getting rich off this sport, guys.
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  #69  
Old 03-07-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpfish View Post
Yet you had time to go through 26 tournament listings, see in how many of them the rec division was won by an unrated player, punch 11 divided by 26 into a calculator, and then pronounce this finding as gospel truth that there is a sandbagging problem.

You didn't have time to see if there were any repeat offenders. You didn't have time to take into consideration that the tournament culture is a bit different in other places where DD does tournaments, and because of that, it might contribute to a higher percentage of non-rated people winning MA3.


The only thing that you've substantiated here is that you like to gripe. That 42% has a context behind it that you're ignoring because it shoots holes in your argument.
Assumes facts not in evidence. If you want to go do some more research, be my guest, but you can't refute observations supported by evidence with bare assumptions and pure speculation. Additionally, it is difficult to see how any of your assumed outcomes would refute the clearly established fact that trophy only in rec has not prevented some unrated players from throwing one or more advanced rated rounds and making off with the trophy. Also, there is a difference between liking to gripe and not being afraid to gripe. Further, it's difficult fir me to see how someone could get so bent out of shape over someone discussing the effects of trophy only in rec at DD tournaments. Why are you acting so wounded?
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  #70  
Old 03-07-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteezeOG View Post
but play for a voucher? Buy yourself a gift certificate and save your time. Tournaments (especially world's) should be about the competition and experience. I just don't think a lot of tournament playing amateurs play for the same reasons I do. I hope I only encounter this on the forum and not in the tournaments I play this year.

I'm sure Jeremy would love to be able to charge you all twenty bucks but how could anyone do that with putting on everything he listed?

No disc golf TD is wearing Prada, driving a sports car, or eating lobster every night. They wear a donated dri fit, eat pizza buffets, and drive ten year old imports that get good gas mileage. No one is getting rich off this sport, guys.
Neither am I but my wallet takes a hit with big entry fees. You don't understand what I'm getting at. I too want to play for the competition and experience. I would play every weekend in PDGA tournaments if overall prices were lower. Why do I need hundreds in merch just for walking in the door. I love the several trophies I have and would never give them up. You should see the stack of stickers I have since my first "experience" in 2007. Because I am charged over $75 for A-tiers but want to play every weekend I am forced to sell all the contents of my player pack to keep truckin on the "AM tour" lol. Cover trophy expenses and park fees and lets play. That is all. Ill play for cash in open when the time comes. Ams should just play.
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