#31  
Old 03-13-2013, 12:55 PM
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tbird888 tbird888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stankyjahnke View Post
an mvp volt is a good disc to work on your form because it'll tell you what your doing wrong
The faster a disc is the more it masks form flaws, neutral stability or not. If you really want to clean up your form, you want something that travels in a straight line at any speed when thrown well. The Comet is one of these discs.
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  #32  
Old 03-13-2013, 12:59 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Ensor View Post
I hear a lot of people say X is better than Z, but I completely disagree. X beats in faster, so it will flip and you won't know how much oat is creeping into the throw. You might be rolling under to compensate for it beating in, or just chalking up roll over to it being beat.
The thing is that's pretty much never a problem. I could be proven wrong but I don't ever remember a thread where someone was complaining about their understable discs going too far without turning over. There may be some where people were underpowering faster, understable discs, (e.g. I can't get my Sidewinder to flip at 200') but no one ever complains that their Leopard went 400' without flipping. If they do, it's super easy to correct because adding the type of OAT that makes discs flip is an easy thing to learn. It's the type of problem many golfers would love to have.

The advantage of the lower end plastic is that it's easier to control. As long as you pick molds that beat in well, they'll get longer and easier to control as they beat. It will take a thrashing before they get at all squirrley. You don't always get that advantage with Champ/Z type plastics.
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  #33  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:27 PM
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kcplease kcplease is offline
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Comet. It is the very best disc for fixing form in my opinion. A cobra or fuse will work too, but neither is as good.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:28 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird888 View Post
The faster a disc is the more it masks form flaws, neutral stability or not.
That's only partially true. Faster discs mask OAT, but slow discs can mask nose angle issues. A Comet doesn't require a nose down throw to fly well, but it does require a clean throw.

The problem is that the distance drive speed discs require so much nose down that it's much easier to compensate with OAT. If you find a disc that requires some nose down, but not a lot and won't fly well with a ton of OAT like a super fast disc, then you can work on both. That's where the slower fairway drivers like the Cheetah and Polaris LS come in.
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:36 PM
JonCatch JonCatch is offline
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Just an update:

I was not able to get out and buy a comet - although I still plan to. But I did make it out to play yesterday and ran into a fellow DGCR'er. He was kind enough to give me some tips on my form.

Per discussions in this thread, I was playing with only my cheetah, leopard, and shark. Literally, every time i threw the cheetah or leopard, It would turn right and crash 100' from my tee. I was told I was putting too much power on the discs for the speed and thats why they would turn on me. He advised that I release these discs with a slight hyzer to help fight the turn. I tried this and while I had some trouble because I force myself to always throw flat, it seemed to help. He asked me to throw my beast and said, with the power i can put on a disc, I should be throwing 9-11 speeds. I threw the beast and it glided perfectly for about 320'.

Some other issues he identified:
Too much nose angle - almost every disc I throw seems to hyzer out in the end.
Not looking at my target - advised I focus my eyes on where i want my disc to go.
Overpowering discs - I use an x-step for most shots, including approaches. I need to focus on letting my form, not my power, get me to the basket.
Adjust my release angle (Left/Right) based on the speed of the disc. - Hyzer for slower disc, anny for faster to adjust for my strength.

Needless to say he was a great help. If anyone else may have any pointers or comments on what i was told, I welcome all input.

I still plan to buy a comet and play a couple rounds with just a midrange to focus on my form and accuracy and hopefully get some videos up.

Thanks again everyone.
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:38 PM
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tbird888 tbird888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
That's only partially true. Faster discs mask OAT, but slow discs can mask nose angle issues. A Comet doesn't require a nose down throw to fly well, but it does require a clean throw.

The problem is that the distance drive speed discs require so much nose down that it's much easier to compensate with OAT. If you find a disc that requires some nose down, but not a lot and won't fly well with a ton of OAT like a super fast disc, then you can work on both. That's where the slower fairway drivers like the Cheetah and Polaris LS come in.
That is a good point. I tend to forget about nose angle when recommending the Comet. I personally had more trouble with OAT and was able to fix my own nose angle issues rather quickly.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:55 PM
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blackcatsmith blackcatsmith is offline
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Wizards. I'm really enjoying hitting the practice field these days with nothing but my Wizards to drive with. Much more satisfying to throw with solid form a putter 270' than muscle a high speed disc to 350'.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:22 PM
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JoeBob21 JoeBob21 is offline
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i agree ^^^ but anodes and pures
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:25 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonCatch View Post
Per discussions in this thread, I was playing with only my cheetah, leopard, and shark. Literally, every time i threw the cheetah or leopard, It would turn right and crash 100' from my tee. I was told I was putting too much power on the discs for the speed and thats why they would turn on me. He advised that I release these discs with a slight hyzer to help fight the turn. I tried this and while I had some trouble because I force myself to always throw flat, it seemed to help. He asked me to throw my beast and said, with the power i can put on a disc, I should be throwing 9-11 speeds. I threw the beast and it glided perfectly for about 320'.
I'm not sure I agree with that advice. If you're getting a Beast out 320' then you are not overpowering those other discs. It's almost certainly OAT. If Cheetahs and Leopards are sqirriley for you you'll probably be throwing your Beast 400+ and find that it's understable as well. I do agree that you'll likely have to throw those discs with a hyzer to get anything but a turnover shot out of them, though. That's not the same as crashing at 100'.

Your problem is almost certainly OAT. Any wobble you see is a tell tale sign (it can also be from too much nose down and power, but again, you'll be throwing way farther than you do now if that were the case). The easiest way to help fix it is to throw all of those discs on a hyzer that doesn't flatten. Start as short as you need to and work out. The most common culprits are wrist roll over (your palm is facing upward right after the hit) and shoulder plane preservation (you throw on a hyzer but follow through flat rather than upward).
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  #40  
Old 03-13-2013, 08:18 PM
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Dan Ensor Dan Ensor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
The thing is that's pretty much never a problem. I could be proven wrong but I don't ever remember a thread where someone was complaining about their understable discs going too far without turning over. There may be some where people were underpowering faster, understable discs, (e.g. I can't get my Sidewinder to flip at 200') but no one ever complains that their Leopard went 400' without flipping. If they do, it's super easy to correct because adding the type of OAT that makes discs flip is an easy thing to learn. It's the type of problem many golfers would love to have.
I had the problem of thinking my discs were beat when it was just OAT. Because you never really know how beat a disc is until you throw it. I had a 2-pronged point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
The advantage of the lower end plastic is that it's easier to control. As long as you pick molds that beat in well, they'll get longer and easier to control as they beat. It will take a thrashing before they get at all squirrley. You don't always get that advantage with Champ/Z type plastics.
Easier to control, but less predictable. Longer, but more understable/squirrelly (they don't go from 0 to 100% squirrelly. It's a process. Every knick creates a pocket of turbulence/drag.) I've completely thrashed X plastic by hitting 1 stop sign.

I'm not saying they don't have advantages, but consistency is crucial to be aware of changes in your throw. Z is more consistent both in flight and wear. Probably the only big advantage I see of X over Z is one you didn't mention; it's easier to grip.

After reading, it seems like you're implying that less stable discs are easier to control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonCatch View Post
Just an update:

I was not able to get out and buy a comet - although I still plan to. But I did make it out to play yesterday and ran into a fellow DGCR'er. He was kind enough to give me some tips on my form.

Per discussions in this thread, I was playing with only my cheetah, leopard, and shark. Literally, every time i threw the cheetah or leopard, It would turn right and crash 100' from my tee. I was told I was putting too much power on the discs for the speed and thats why they would turn on me. He advised that I release these discs with a slight hyzer to help fight the turn. I tried this and while I had some trouble because I force myself to always throw flat, it seemed to help. He asked me to throw my beast and said, with the power i can put on a disc, I should be throwing 9-11 speeds. I threw the beast and it glided perfectly for about 320'.

Some other issues he identified:
Too much nose angle - almost every disc I throw seems to hyzer out in the end.
Not looking at my target - advised I focus my eyes on where i want my disc to go.
Overpowering discs - I use an x-step for most shots, including approaches. I need to focus on letting my form, not my power, get me to the basket.
Adjust my release angle (Left/Right) based on the speed of the disc. - Hyzer for slower disc, anny for faster to adjust for my strength.
Speed 9-11 might get you more D and be predictable enough at 300-320', but it's not doing your form any favors.

I don't look at my target. Even when I'm putting, I'm doing everything but focusing on my target. I know where it is. There are a few pretty noteworthy mma fighters that never look their opponents in the eyes during the typical staredown because it tenses them up. Same concept with not looking at the target. When my eyes are faced toward the target during release, I'm not focusing them to any point. I have some big holes in my game; it's always possible that's a part of it.

"Overpowering discs" is terminologically incorrect. It's called "strong arming". Have a relaxed arm; the tension will enter naturally.

I would not make such a general statement as "use more hyzer on slower discs". I would say "Slower discs will hold their turn longer, be sure to account for that."
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