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  #41  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:37 PM
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steven2361 steven2361 is offline
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X Comet!
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2013, 10:07 PM
Alcuin Alcuin is offline
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Sometimes it might seem hard to know if it's you or the disc. I think the best thing to do is assume it's you. I play with some people that have very very good form. I've seen somebody throw a seasoned Polecat on a pure hyzer for a little over 250'. Having seen that, which I consider to be a pretty good demonstration of what's possible with the right form, I know it's always possible to throw better than you're throwing.

Working those discs that you turn over at 100' can be painful, but once you subject yourself to that you'll have solid form and you'll never have to do it again.
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  #43  
Old 03-13-2013, 10:54 PM
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discanova discanova is offline
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Latitude 64 pure. Great disc that can be thrown on any line. I bought one as a "throw away" for a "1 disc challenge" and I shot -4 with it. I highly recommend it!
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  #44  
Old 03-14-2013, 03:07 AM
Timkid Timkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloppydisc View Post
Comet or Fuse and any neutral putter. Throw them often. Do field work and play rounds with only those discs. You will not only strengthen your short game, you will improve your form. Go read the technique sticky's and the disc down thread. Good luck.
Any recommendation on weight and plastic. I have completely disced down to rhyno and darts. But also want something for form work before i add in any roc's.
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  #45  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:20 AM
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sloppydisc sloppydisc is offline
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I am not a Comet guy, but it seems like a lot of people like the X Comet. I'd recommend a GL Fuse. Weights are kind of a personal thing. I like my putters and mids somewhere close to 172, but lots of people go max weight, and others like lighter stuff. That's where you'll have to experiment a little. Just get something close to whatever mids and putters you have now that you like.
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  #46  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:33 AM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Ensor View Post
I had the problem of thinking my discs were beat when it was just OAT.
So it was you, not the discs? That's my point, if you can't get those discs to fly right it's not the discs fault, it's yours. For your argument to make sense you'd have to have been in the situation where the discs were turning because they were beat and you thought it was OAT. That's the exact opposite of what you just said.

Quote:
Easier to control, but less predictable.
Now you're just playing with semantics to try to convince yourself that you're right. You can't be both easier to control and less predictable. If it's less predictable then you can't control it as well. You can have a disc that's hard to control but very predictable (e.g. Demon) but you can't have a disc that's easy to control and not predictable. There are some discs that do get squirrley when beat, but the discs we're talking about aren't like that at the distances we're talking about. Actually, most find that Champ plastic is more squirrley (it'd difficult to control when and how much turn you get) when beat than low end plastic. Champ tends to lose HSS faster and low end tends to lose LSS faster. Granted it takes longer to beat a Champ disc, but in the molds we're talking about we're talking the order of months, not rounds.

Quote:
I've completely thrashed X plastic by hitting 1 stop sign.
I know everyone who's against lower end plastic has anecdotal evidence that it beats way too fast, but most people who aren't looking for a reason to throw high end plastic, or who aren't throwing 20mph faster than everyone else, don't find that to be the case. There are molds that are exceptions, but again, those are generally not recommended.

Quote:
I'm not saying they don't have advantages, but consistency is crucial to be aware of changes in your throw. Z is more consistent both in flight and wear.
More consistent isn't always exactly what you want. If you can throw a disc many different ways and always get the same result you won't learn much. You want a disc that's both easy to control and consistent. Low end plastic discs in the molds we're talking about fit that criteria and get easier and easier to control as they beat. How can a disc that gets easier to control after every throw be a bad thing for someone learning?

Quote:
After reading, it seems like you're implying that less stable discs are easier to control?
No, I'm saying that beat versions of low end plastic discs that are neutral to a bit overstable are easiest to control. A disc that starts off "just right" in high end plastic will get more and more difficult to control as it beats. Why not pick discs that get better as they beat rather than worse?

Granted there are several molds where you can throw high end versions when learning and probably not see any bad effects. However, why go spend $15 on a disc that, at best will be slightly worse than a disc you already have? The guy's biggest problem appears to be OAT and a new, high end disc will mask that worse than what he has now. Being able to control a beat Cheetah and Shark will help tremendously.

Quote:
Speed 9-11 might get you more D and be predictable enough at 300-320', but it's not doing your form any favors.
100% agree.

Quote:
I don't look at my target. Even when I'm putting, I'm doing everything but focusing on my target. I know where it is. There are a few pretty noteworthy mma fighters that never look their opponents in the eyes during the typical staredown because it tenses them up. Same concept with not looking at the target. When my eyes are faced toward the target during release, I'm not focusing them to any point. I have some big holes in my game; it's always possible that's a part of it.
There is an advantage to trying to look at your target near the end of your drive. It will help you focus your effort at the right time and align your shoulders and torso. Watch Ken Climo's head on his drives, it follows the line he's throwing on. It's probably not a coincidence that he's so good at that and so far has been the most constant golfer for the longest time.

Quote:
"Overpowering discs" is terminologically incorrect. It's called "strong arming". Have a relaxed arm; the tension will enter naturally.
The terminology gets a bit fuzzy here. By many definitions you can "strong arm" a disc cleanly and not get extra turn. "Strong arming" just means that you're accelerating too early and then are slowing down at the hit, which is a weak way to throw. You can overpower a disc, it's just that most don't and discs that are easily overpowered are almost never recommended (the Sidewinder being a notable exception).
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  #47  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 AM
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Dan Ensor Dan Ensor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Ensor View Post
I hear a lot of people say X is better than Z, but I completely disagree. X beats in faster, so it will flip and you won't know how much oat is creeping into the throw. You might be rolling under to compensate for it beating in, or just chalking up roll over to it being beat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
So it was you, not the discs? That's my point, if you can't get those discs to fly right it's not the discs fault, it's yours. For your argument to make sense you'd have to have been in the situation where the discs were turning because they were beat and you thought it was OAT. That's the exact opposite of what you just said.
Like I said, I had a 2 pronged point. Also, I forgot that I started with a Valk (PIAS find) that really was just too beat. ... might be good for a skomahawk.

I'll just put it out there that I have 10-15 comets; only 3 Z. I prefer the X Comets, but if I'm looking for form feedback, I throw my Z.



Quote:
Originally Posted by garublador View Post
Now you're just playing with semantics to try to convince yourself that you're right. You can't be both easier to control and less predictable. If it's less predictable then you can't control it as well. You can have a disc that's hard to control but very predictable (e.g. Demon) but you can't have a disc that's easy to control and not predictable. There are some discs that do get squirrley when beat, but the discs we're talking about aren't like that at the distances we're talking about. Actually, most find that Champ plastic is more squirrley (it'd difficult to control when and how much turn you get) when beat than low end plastic. Champ tends to lose HSS faster and low end tends to lose LSS faster. Granted it takes longer to beat a Champ disc, but in the molds we're talking about we're talking the order of months, not rounds.

On control vs. predictability: first of all, I have no idea what people mean when they say "more controllable". Second, I was basically parroting Blake_T on the differences in smooth vs. coarse plastic. I had no idea Champ vs DX lost HSS or LSS faster; I thought it was mold dependant.

More consistent isn't always exactly what you want. If you can throw a disc many different ways and always get the same result you won't learn much. You want a disc that's both easy to control and consistent. Low end plastic discs in the molds we're talking about fit that criteria and get easier and easier to control as they beat. How can a disc that gets easier to control after every throw be a bad thing for someone learning?

If you throw a Z Comet 2 different ways, you're not going to get the same flight. Being more affected by wind etc. though, 2 throws the same with X can yield different results.

No, I'm saying that beat versions of low end plastic discs that are neutral to a bit overstable are easiest to control. A disc that starts off "just right" in high end plastic will get more and more difficult to control as it beats. Why not pick discs that get better as they beat rather than worse?

I don't see how PPs get harder to control as they beat, but I already said I don't know what "control" means

There is an advantage to trying to look at your target near the end of your drive. It will help you focus your effort at the right time and align your shoulders and torso. Watch Ken Climo's head on his drives, it follows the line he's throwing on. It's probably not a coincidence that he's so good at that and so far has been the most constant golfer for the longest time.

This is not meant as a disagreement at all, but: without asking him, you don't know if his shot is following his head or his head is following his shot.


I have a quick question. For those of you that prefer lower grade plastics, did you have a mentor when you started out? Or were you just trolling the internetz? Or neither?
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  #48  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:03 PM
Chief Putt Putt Chief Putt Putt is offline
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You guys have sparked my interest into getting a comet to help with my form, but how well do the vibram ibex and innova super stingray at helping form compared to the comet? (since I already have those two mids)
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  #49  
Old 03-22-2013, 01:37 AM
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Jay75 Jay75 is offline
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I know everyone is saying to get a Comet to help with your form, but I'll add to that by saying once you figure it out you'll love it.
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2013, 01:49 AM
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wake_rider wake_rider is offline
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Ultrastar.
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