#131  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:59 PM
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gcr_russell gcr_russell is offline
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You can't compare a change in color with a change in functionality (Pens with problematic ink). Yes it is an inconvenience and contributing factor for some people to have the color fade. It is, however, a superficial change and one that has no impact on the performance of the product. If there was a functionality issue (marked at 174, weighing at 179 above legal max weight) then I could understand people's anger over the issue. It all seems relatively minor to me.
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  #132  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:05 PM
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Wait, they released OVAL discs? That is pretty funny.
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  #133  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:06 PM
1978 1978 is offline
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You missed the point or perhaps it was a bad example. Its about, no matter what the quality concern, you make it right. If I buy a pink disc, I expect it to stay pink longer than 20 minutes in the sun. If you bought a car and it faded from Red to White...or even a dress shirt your school colors...and 1 arm faded as you drove to work in the sun...um you would be pretty pissed. In the BIC example. It didn't effect every pen, and they were $.10 pens that most consumers would expect to fail easily. They still did the right thing as many companies do...then did the right things to make sure that it never happened again...because if you got bad BIC pens, you wouldnt purchase them ever again...just like you would never purchase that type of shirt again. But guess what. Most of us WILL purchase Innova, Discraft, Prodigy again regardless of how they treat you by providing crap stuff, and the CRAZY thing is that we re-purchase them to find one that flys like our favorite...lol...they actually win by sending us junk.

Last edited by 1978; 03-15-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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  #134  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcr_russell View Post
You can't compare a change in color with a change in functionality (Pens with problematic ink). Yes it is an inconvenience and contributing factor for some people to have the color fade. It is, however, a superficial change and one that has no impact on the performance of the product. If there was a functionality issue (marked at 174, weighing at 179 above legal max weight) then I could understand people's anger over the issue. It all seems relatively minor to me.
If my disc turned white, that means I couldn't throw it for 4 months out of the year. I'd be pissed.

I bought 4 protos when they first came out and bagged them (guessing these were probably overweight). I'm not hating, I'm just not participating.....until they get their act together.
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  #135  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:08 PM
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1978,

I agree with you that we as consumers don't hold manufacturers as accountable for their terrible business practices. In that regard i believe Prodigy has gotten off to a less than stellar start, for sure.
However, this isnt uncommon in disc golf. All new companies in recent history have had, and continue to have hickups.
In a perfect world, a problem would be fixed permanently after its discovery (or just not happen at all). The reality is this is a company full of mostly inexperienced owners, as far as the field of injection molding and plastic stuff goes. Theyre also in a hurry to meet a demand that they hyped into existence. Seemingly they thought this was gonna be easier than it actually is, obviously, they werent prepared. Reminds me a lot of Grip Eq's start. A player owned business, with a product designed by and for pros, but marketed to everyone. Rough start. Got their crap together, and is now peetty successful.

Ima guess that this will not last very long, year or two maybe. Which to me would be an achievement, lat and mvp took/have taken at least that long, so, id say, even though youre right, i dont see this industry changing anytime soon. The vast majority of the people that buy discs dont even know or care about some of these issues. So the initiative to 'make' them change is gonna be tough to get going, imo.
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  #136  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:10 PM
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I think it's more the principal of the thing. No, the color fade doesn't change the flight characteristics of the disc. But is it a oversight that could have been easily remedied prior to the release? Absolutely. Prodigy told us we would be getting a quality, consistent product. We didn't for the most part.
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  #137  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:12 PM
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""The best companies in this world shut their mouths and let the product do the talking. ""

i like this comment...^^^
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  #138  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Ive worked in retail and consumer products for almost 15 years. Regardless of how well it ran the Nova was a No go in Latin America. While at BIC we had some iron shavings get into our ink. Probably effected the writing of 30,000 10 - $1 type pens. Management instantly told all customers. We redesigned the shipping cartons to have a marking and labeled all inner packs of the new run. They recalled EVERY pen and cost them a lot of money. But it was worth it because it told the retailer that BIC thinks the Customer is #1. Then changes were made to the production environment so it never happened again.

These "issues" with Prodigy would sink any "NEW"consumer company in any other market. They are lucky we are used to poor performance, low expectations on quality, lacking marketing or quality control, and a general lasse faire attitude towards the customer. Prodigy has made it 100% clear that their focus is pampering 10 "professional" disc golfers. We are clearly not Prodigy's focus. Unfortunately NO I feel that I (internally) am being too nice. Prodigy claimed and was marketed as a change in the way disc golf is done. THEY made these claims and THEY aren't meeting them. If someone visits my house, and their dog craps on my carpet, I don't care how fast they clean it up. Don't bring that dog over anymore. I honestly feel that the market is oversaturated with different discs. Its a sham, and the only thing that Prodigy brought to the table was a fresh start. They ruined that. Any of the 30 DG companies could spend $ to upgrade their processes, with an existing customer base. We were looking for something done right ALL THE TIME fresh. You know who doesn't get the press; DD and Lat. 64. They blow these guys away and they didn't need to use the Hype machine to do it. The best companies in this world shut their mouths and let the product do the talking. It seems like this company is run by a bunch of monkeys. I'm sad that we put up with this stuff. You and Mark are good friends but I'm disappointed that we as a DG community dont push harder on all the manufacturers to make good quality products. You go out and buy 175 discs. This tells Prodigy we don't care if you don't care about us. We will still buy your junk. Send us your poisoned first run of PA #X and we will clammer for it regardless of the quality. We should be able to answer someone that doesn't know disc golf that asks, how does this disc fly? Well you see it depends on the run, time of year, humidity, year produced...blah blah yuck yuck.

I havent thrown the ones I have. I will someday throw some prodigy, but I won't be amazed. There is no shot type that I can't make with my inventory of 1000 discs... I can even do it all with just Innova or Discraft. We dont need new plastics or discs. We need to be able to trust that if we pay $17 for $.30 worth of plastic it does the same stuff every time...and that if real news people become interested in the sport we can direct them to a well run supplier that has its stuff together.

95% in first runs... the issues were so glaring it is gross that they even thought about sending them out to the public. OVAL DISCS...awful stamps... cut discs. This is how you present your company? What is their quality check list? You think "round" would be #1.... Does Ford send its first electric vehicle out with only some of the doors painted? Oreo 2/3 of the cookies? Crayola 2 reds because blue didnt make it? Could you imagine if the newest ProV1 ball had the cover crack after 2 hits or the printing was crooked? People would be out of work, lots of people.
Stop giving them a pass. Just in the M's we have seen the dying issue, rumors that they are going to rename the entire line because they didn't test and realize the M2/3 were so close in flight. M4's being released before they were supposed to be. We dont even have good data on how well these things hold up, if they beat up to crap. How do they handle the cold?

We expected only what Prodigy said they would provide. They didn't. Its their fault and they still a screwing up obvious things. All they are is a below average "another disc golf copmany." So...we wait for the company that WILL rise up take the sport serious and think "What have I done for the customer today."
I enjoyed this post. Thanks for sahring your thoughts.
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  #139  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:42 PM
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Tpro Tpro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978 View Post
Ive worked in retail and consumer products for almost 15 years. Regardless of how well it ran the Nova was a No go in Latin America. While at BIC we had some iron shavings get into our ink. Probably effected the writing of 30,000 10 - $1 type pens. Management instantly told all customers. We redesigned the shipping cartons to have a marking and labeled all inner packs of the new run. They recalled EVERY pen and cost them a lot of money. But it was worth it because it told the retailer that BIC thinks the Customer is #1. Then changes were made to the production environment so it never happened again.

These "issues" with Prodigy would sink any "NEW"consumer company in any other market. They are lucky we are used to poor performance, low expectations on quality, lacking marketing or quality control, and a general lasse faire attitude towards the customer. Prodigy has made it 100% clear that their focus is pampering 10 "professional" disc golfers. We are clearly not Prodigy's focus. Unfortunately NO I feel that I (internally) am being too nice. Prodigy claimed and was marketed as a change in the way disc golf is done. THEY made these claims and THEY aren't meeting them. If someone visits my house, and their dog craps on my carpet, I don't care how fast they clean it up. Don't bring that dog over anymore. I honestly feel that the market is oversaturated with different discs. Its a sham, and the only thing that Prodigy brought to the table was a fresh start. They ruined that. Any of the 30 DG companies could spend $ to upgrade their processes, with an existing customer base. We were looking for something done right ALL THE TIME fresh. You know who doesn't get the press; DD and Lat. 64. They blow these guys away and they didn't need to use the Hype machine to do it. The best companies in this world shut their mouths and let the product do the talking. It seems like this company is run by a bunch of monkeys. I'm sad that we put up with this stuff. You and Mark are good friends but I'm disappointed that we as a DG community dont push harder on all the manufacturers to make good quality products. You go out and buy 175 discs. This tells Prodigy we don't care if you don't care about us. We will still buy your junk. Send us your poisoned first run of PA #X and we will clammer for it regardless of the quality. We should be able to answer someone that doesn't know disc golf that asks, how does this disc fly? Well you see it depends on the run, time of year, humidity, year produced...blah blah yuck yuck.

I havent thrown the ones I have. I will someday throw some prodigy, but I won't be amazed. There is no shot type that I can't make with my inventory of 1000 discs... I can even do it all with just Innova or Discraft. We dont need new plastics or discs. We need to be able to trust that if we pay $17 for $.30 worth of plastic it does the same stuff every time...and that if real news people become interested in the sport we can direct them to a well run supplier that has its stuff together.

95% in first runs... the issues were so glaring it is gross that they even thought about sending them out to the public. OVAL DISCS...awful stamps... cut discs. This is how you present your company? What is their quality check list? You think "round" would be #1.... Does Ford send its first electric vehicle out with only some of the doors painted? Oreo 2/3 of the cookies? Crayola 2 reds because blue didnt make it? Could you imagine if the newest ProV1 ball had the cover crack after 2 hits or the printing was crooked? People would be out of work, lots of people.
Stop giving them a pass. Just in the M's we have seen the dying issue, rumors that they are going to rename the entire line because they didn't test and realize the M2/3 were so close in flight. M4's being released before they were supposed to be. We dont even have good data on how well these things hold up, if they beat up to crap. How do they handle the cold?

We expected only what Prodigy said they would provide. They didn't. Its their fault and they still a screwing up obvious things. All they are is a below average "another disc golf copmany." So...we wait for the company that WILL rise up take the sport serious and think "What have I done for the customer today."
^^MARK, you are the Frickin MAN!!!!! Possbily the best post Ive read on this forum. Air Five!
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  #140  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:02 PM
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Future_Primitive Future_Primitive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwingles View Post
The reality is this is a company full of mostly inexperienced owners, as far as the field of injection molding and plastic stuff goes. Theyre also in a hurry to meet a demand that they hyped into existence. Seemingly they thought this was gonna be easier than it actually is, obviously, they werent prepared.
I think this nailed it on the head for me. While I myself have held off bashing them publicly I completely understand why others do bash them. They asked for the attention, they put the pressure on themselves, they set the expectation level for themselves. It is the downside to doing a lot of talking before you begin the walking. I am sure they loved the attention early on as they were the talk of the town. But you gotta take the good with the bad, you don't get to fail quietly when you asked everyone to notice you and your product. You don't get the benefit of doubt when you are boldly claiming to change the game. They wanted it all highly publicized, now they got it, too bad it is now for all the wrong reasons.

In regards to the color change, sure it doesnt affect the function of the disc just the aesthetics. But color is very important in this market, if not we would all be chucking boring white discs, or black discs or whatever stock color would be the lone color. So to have coloring fail in 20-30 minutes of sunlight is not acceptable. I may love the flight of the color changed disc, but doesnt mean I can't be angry at the manufacturer at the same time for it changing on me.

I am not rooting against them, not a "hater" or anything. Just a consumer who so far has been quite unimpressed with their quality and product. I hope they do get it right, hope they turn things around and we can laugh about this crap in a few years. But I am not going to pay for their mistakes, I don't feel the need to support them until they get things right.

(Note, I did buy a M3 from Burnin' right before this thread began, my one and only Prodigy disc)
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