#1  
Old 10-10-2008, 01:01 PM
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ERicJ ERicJ is offline
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Off Axis Torque

When it comes to proper technique there's often mention of "off axis torque", typically in a negative connotation.

What is the effect of off axis torque on a disc's flight?

What characteristics lead a player to impart off axis torque? And thus what can be done to minimize them?

ERic
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2008, 01:37 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Torque is a roational force about an axis. In the case of disc golf, off axis torque is a roational force about an axis that doesn't go through the center of the disc in a direction perpendicular to the flight plate at the time of release.

OAT can cause the disc to act either more or less overstable than the disc would if the throw was clean. Most of the OAT you hear talked about in a negative manor stems from people trying to throw discs that are faster than the thrower can control. To get the discs to fly straight and far the thrower will learn to add OAT to get the disc to act more understable. If they were to throw a slower disc like that it would most likely flip and turn into a cut roller. The result you get are players who can only either throw really fast discs sorta far (350' max) but with little control and they are unable to get slower fairway drivers, mids and putters to do anything but flip.

The two biggest motions that contribute to OAT are wrist roll (either under or over) and lack of plane preservation with your arm and shoulders on your follow through. Rolling your wrist over (your palm is facing the sky immediately after the hit) and following through on a lower angle than the discs' angle at the hit cause discs to act more understable. The opposite cause discs to act more overstable. The former is a much more common problem.

OAT, when intentional, can also be used to control a discs's flight and shape lines. Say you want to have the disc flip from hyzer to flat, glide a bit, turn over, glide farther and then fade. You can throw a disc like a beat DX Eagle-X on a hyzer, but finish on an angle less than the hyzer angle. Controlling how much of a difference there is between the angles will allow you to control when the Eagle goes from straight to tracking right. Depending on how beat the Eagle is, the disc will either continue tracking right, fade back to straight and glide a bit, or fade back left. Once you get good at these types of shots (sometimes called roll curves), the negative effect of choosing the wrong beatness of fairway driver will have a small impact (perhaps 10') rather than a large one (30'-40' off for choosing the wrong mold).

Roll under can be used effectively too. Say you have a shot that's kind of short for a midrange, but there's a stiff left turn at the end. You can throw your mid with less hyzer than normal and roll under (or follow through on a higher angle) and the disc will either hold a hyzer the whole time or fade out earlier/harder than it would on a normal shot.

One of the easist ways to get roll under out of your throw is to practice throwing your most understable plastic on pure hyzers. Start off short and lengthen how far you throw, avoiding letting the discs flip up from a hyzer at all. Eventually you'll get the feel for how to control the wrist roll. Your slower discs will fly farther and be much easier to control and the speed you gain (or stop losing from OAT) might make the best longer range disc for you more obvious. You'll start seeing lines you never knew existed, using discs for shots you never imagined would work (I threw a flippy Gazelle ~350' into a headwind a couple weeks ago) and you'll amaze people because it starts looking like your discs are remote controlled.
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Old 10-10-2008, 05:46 PM
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Thumbs up

Good stuff. Thanks a lot. I would've gotten carpal tunnel from all that typing. Very informative.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:41 PM
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A lot of times when I drive with my Rocs they come out of my hand, quickly go to the right and end up about 90 feet away when I wanted a good 230' and fall to the leftout of it.Other times I can throw them 250' and have them fall to the left like I want. Is the sloppy throw that I described OAT?
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:53 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
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Is the sloppy throw that I described OAT?
I can't say for sure without seeing your throw, but there's a very good chance that off-axis torque is what's causing it.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:59 PM
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Thanks. I think we had talked about this before when I was looking for an overstable mid-range disc for drives. You thought was that I was Just throwing the disc wrong, perhaps OAT. I do agree and I will try to focus more on my wrists when throwing. I will keep you posted.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:20 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Focus on getting it so your palm is neutral to facing downward right after the hit. Also focus on preserving the angle your shoulders are on and matching that angle to the anlge you're throwing on. A 10 degree hyzer should start with your right shoulder 10 degrees below your left shoulder on the reach back (assuming RHBH) and end with your right shoulder 10 degrees above your left shoulder on the follow through.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:22 PM
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YoDesigner YoDesigner is offline
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What about a disc that 'flutters' after release? I notice when my friend throws hard the disc kind of vibrates rapidly for about 50' before it smooths out. Is that OAT? Throughout this past year his drives have been getting better without the flutter, but I am not sure what is causing it. Every once in a while I notice he still has a little flutter after the release and that usually results in a shorter drive...
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:49 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDesigner View Post
What about a disc that 'flutters' after release? I notice when my friend throws hard the disc kind of vibrates rapidly for about 50' before it smooths out. Is that OAT? Throughout this past year his drives have been getting better without the flutter, but I am not sure what is causing it. Every once in a while I notice he still has a little flutter after the release and that usually results in a shorter drive...
It's almost definitely OAT, especally if it's anything faster than a putter.
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:31 PM
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Jungle Tim Jungle Tim is offline
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OAT diagnosis and herbal remedies?

I hate to admit it but i have a mild case of OAT.

What are the best exercises to get me back to throwing without OAT.

What are the best discs to reveal technique?

All help MUCH appreciated!

(to save a little wonga if you could suggest from my collection below)


i have.
2x 1080putters
2x banger GT soft/esp
1x Whittler

2xBuzz FLX
1x Comet ESP
1x champ stingray
1x old very flippy roc

2x champ teebird
2x surge z /esp
1x preadator esp
1x champ sidewinder
1x destroyer
1x boss
1x old teerex flippy.
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