#91  
Old 03-29-2013, 02:13 PM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Not really, it will gyro on both axes in outer space ignoring drag and the disc will never veer off its initial trajectory. The benefits of gyro really only affect discs due to drag stabilizing the spin to one axis.
No. Watch the spinning top early in this video. It moves across the saucer and hits the edge. The sudden stop in lateral momentum imparts torque to the axis of the top. That torque is counteracted by the gyroscopic effect so the top does not continue to tip over. There are no aerodymic effects causing this.

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  #92  
Old 03-29-2013, 05:15 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
No. Watch the spinning top early in this video. It moves across the saucer and hits the edge. The sudden stop in lateral momentum imparts torque to the axis of the top. That torque is counteracted by the gyroscopic effect so the top does not continue to tip over. There are no aerodymic effects causing this.
Eh, the top has a reference to ground to counter forces just like the disc has the air. The top would also spin end over end if it were not for the ground. You could compare the oat imparted to the top and how the top moves around to counter that off axis torque, to a disc turning in flight due to oat. In outer space a top with oat or a disc would never stabilize to a singe axis because there is no reference to ground, gravity, or air to counter the momentum.
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  #93  
Old 03-29-2013, 05:25 PM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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I'll try this video then to help you understand the gyroscope:

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See how the spinning makes it resist the end-over-end action you claim will happen (and that OAT causes)?

Do you think that gravity pulling down on this is stronger or weaker than the aerodynamics you claim is acting on the disc to stabilize the end-over-end rotation.

Last edited by Dave242; 03-29-2013 at 05:28 PM.
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  #94  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:14 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
I'll try this video then to help you understand the gyroscope:

See how the spinning makes it resist the end-over-end action you claim will happen (and that OAT causes)?

Do you think that gravity pulling down on this is stronger or weaker than the aerodynamics you claim is acting on the disc to stabilize the end-over-end rotation.
Lol...I understand just fine and dandy, but you don't seem to. I'm not arguing that gyro doesn't resist oat here on earth, but in outer space it's another story. All that video shows is that the imparted gyro effect is greater than the relative gravity. Gyro is a counterbalance and actually requires a reference to ground to work it's little parlor trick. Drag amplifies the gyro effect on a disc. Gravity is not really even a force, it's an observed effect or pseudo force at best. Obviously drag/lift force is much greater than gravity when you throw an air bounce. If you impart enough force that wheel will spin on two axes, just like a disc will.

Last edited by sidewinder22; 03-29-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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  #95  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:32 PM
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I'll try this video of a gyroscope used in outerspace then to help you understand the gyroscope:

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Convinced yet?

BTW, I found that here.
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  #96  
Old 03-29-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote from NASA:
"Many people mistakenly think that gravity does not exist in space. However, typical orbital altitudes for human spaceflight vary between 120 - 360 miles above Earth's surface. The gravitational field is still quite strong in these regions, since this is only about 1.8 percent the distance to the moon. Earth's gravitational field at about 250 miles above the surface is 88.8 percent of its strength at the surface. Therefore, orbiting spacecraft, like the space shuttle or space station, are kept in orbit around Earth by gravity."

His tiny force imparted on the gyro gets mostly vectored like a disc turning due to oat. The gyro still changes the attitude slightly. Impart more force and it will go end over end. I'm holding fast as far as zero gravity is concerned.
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  #97  
Old 03-29-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Quote from NASA:
"Many people mistakenly think that gravity does not exist in space. However, typical orbital altitudes for human spaceflight vary between 120 - 360 miles above Earth's surface. The gravitational field is still quite strong in these regions, since this is only about 1.8 percent the distance to the moon. Earth's gravitational field at about 250 miles above the surface is 88.8 percent of its strength at the surface. Therefore, orbiting spacecraft, like the space shuttle or space station, are kept in orbit around Earth by gravity."

His tiny force imparted on the gyro gets mostly vectored like a disc turning due to oat. The gyro still changes the attitude slightly. Impart more force and it will go end over end. I'm holding fast as far as zero gravity is concerned.
Yes there is certainly is gravity there.....and it is keeping the spacestation in orbit: The gravitational pull is a force equal and opposite to the centrifugal force caused by the angular momentum of the space station's speed as it orbits the earth. If it were not for this (or the space station having its engines running all the time), the space station would either drift off into space or come crashing to earth.

BTW, what is your background in the study of physics?
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  #98  
Old 03-29-2013, 07:53 PM
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Dan Ensor Dan Ensor is offline
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I should have clarified; the multiple axes are what create a rail, and can be manipulated to gain leverage.
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  #99  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
Yes there is certainly is gravity there.....and it is keeping the spacestation in orbit: The gravitational pull is a force equal and opposite to the centrifugal force caused by the angular momentum of the space station's speed as it orbits the earth. If it were not for this (or the space station having its engines running all the time), the space station would either drift off into space or come crashing to earth.

BTW, what is your background in the study of physics?
My physics background... AP physics in HS, got into hydrodynamics as a hobby in high school being a short swimmer. Read lots of stuff from Einstein, Hawking and others. Studied acoustics at MIT, Bose, and a few other places.
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  #100  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:35 PM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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Pretty cool that you were at Bose. They are in several of the buildings vacated when the company I worked for out of college (Prime Computer) went belly up.

I wonder what your AP Physics teacher and MIT professors would think of the concepts put forth in this paragraph:
I'm not arguing that gyro doesn't resist oat here on earth, but in outer space it's another story. All that video shows is that the imparted gyro effect is greater than the relative gravity. Gyro is a counterbalance and actually requires a reference to ground to work it's little parlor trick. Drag amplifies the gyro effect on a disc. Gravity is not really even a force, it's an observed effect or pseudo force at best.
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