#1  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:46 PM
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thePiRaTE thePiRaTE is offline
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Starting from scratch after years of bad habits.

I've decided to commit myself to the record here. This year I will improve, by taking steps backwards. After years of doing it wrong, I have finally come to the conclusion the only way to improve is to strip the bag down to speed 7 or less and start from scratch. For every past step forward, my form would slowly somehow revert back to old ways. Mids would come out of the bag too often to make room for a new speed 13 to try and ultimately, I would end up flexing them all, more or less to get any D and the search for another disc would go on.

I blame myself for caving in to the hype, but I also blame disc marketing for the hype to begin with. When you read those write ups and pro reviews about discs, it seems as if each disc is better than the last. How is that possible? I've finally realized - its not. At least for those without the good form and consistency to notice. It's a business afterall, but they market 'learning' discs all wrong. "For those with less power". I could throw a baseball from center field to home plate since little league, I never thought of myself as having "less power". I thought of myself as having more power when it came to my arm. But that has absolutely nothing to do with it. Its form. Technique. They need to rebadge all the stuff that teaches proper technique as primary, essential staples. Push these discs to n00bs like the gold they really are. You can have all the power in the world, but if you can't put a Leopard on any line you need, you haven't learned enough to throw a Destroyer. If you rush this, you'll learn bad habits (like I did) and waste lots of money on discs that don't help.

I'm only a recreational player - and I do enjoy myself - but I've been doing this long enough to know I should be better at it by now. This year I'd like to _actually_ improve. So, everything speed 8 or faster is out. I'll be using discs well within my ability and focusing on putting them exactly where I need them to go. I've consciously decided achieving consistency and watching discs fly as intended will make me happy. If I play this way for the entire season and learn a few things, I've accomplished my goal. If I learn fast, great - but I'm in no rush. Net result, I will have improved and I will finally take myself out from behind the brick wall I've been running into since I put a brand new Orc into my bag (when it was the newest thing) after I lost my leopard to a river thinking I would be able to throw farther from that point on because of it.

There. I've done it. I've surrendered my pride, and I feel better. Thank-you.

In case anyone is interested, I have a shiny new Voodoo Juju (great little bag, btw) and have these to fill it up -

Innova Eagle-X Star 175g
MVP Amp Neutron 169g
Innova Leopard Champion 172g
Westside Warship VIP 172g
Innova Roc3 Champion 180g
Innova Roc (San Marino) Star 180g
MVP Tangent Neutron 175g
Innova Aviar R-Pro 175g
Innova Rhyno Star 170g

Keep in mind, I do have some favorites (Roc, Leopard, Eagle), but if anyone feels like saying "Hey, that looks alright, but you'll learn faster with 'X' disc - my plastic habit and desire to improve will be listening.

K.
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:56 PM
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thePiRaTE thePiRaTE is offline
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Notes on the discs. I didn't post them fast enough to count as an edit -

Innova Eagle-X Star 175g - I'll save this for windy days or FH.
MVP Amp Neutron 169g - new on me, it's a hunch.
Innova Leopard Champion 172g - my goal is to master this disc.
Westside Warship VIP 172g - easy to command, should be a good gauge of form.
Innova Roc3 Champion 180g - new on me, I liked my other Roc.
Innova Roc (San Marino) Star 180g - my other Roc. It's beat in, I miss the LSS.
MVP Tangent Neutron 175g - new. Seems like a good place to start.
Innova Aviar R-Pro 175g - old fav, I want to learn to throw this this year, not just putt.
Innova Rhyno Star 170g - first putter I could drive, I'll keep it for wind.
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:02 AM
tu-f-o tu-f-o is online now
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I would stick to your 3 favorites, as all of them are amazing discs. The Eagle is probably my favorite disc overall. Leopard is amazing, and rocs are nice too. Me personally, I do much better with Fairway Drivers, and this is a good way to test your skills and accuracy in the narrows.
You might even want to go lighter in weights (that really tests me, I have a 157g star leopard that requires real control). But you don't have to throw as hard with lighter weights.
Honestly I would just learn how to throw and own with an understable like a leopard or sidewinder. Overstable discs are relatively easy to learn and won't help you too much in form.

Just curious, how much would you sell your roc3?
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:08 AM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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I hear you, I did the same thing years ago. I'm still "going back to basics" to try and break this plateau in my form.

I think you can parse your bag down a bit more if you wanted to. I think it's best to have a workhorse driver, mid, and putter to really learn in and out. You've got some good discs to re-learn how to throw with like the Leopard and by all accounts the Amp and Tangent sound good. The Leo and Amp might fight for shots as well as the Warship, Roc and Tangent so you might have to pick a favorite.

What I do recommend is easing off the Rhyno and getting an Aviar to drive with or if you really want something to teach you some basic disc throwing fundamentals look into a Polecat, Rattler or similar lid style disc.

Edit: Saw your disc notes. If you really want to master a Leo, get one in DX or Pro. Way more glide and will really teach you how shape lines.

Last edited by BrotherDave; 03-20-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:53 AM
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thePiRaTE thePiRaTE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu-f-o View Post
I would stick to your 3 favorites, as all of them are amazing discs. The Eagle is probably my favorite disc overall. Leopard is amazing, and rocs are nice too. Me personally, I do much better with Fairway Drivers, and this is a good way to test your skills and accuracy in the narrows.
You might even want to go lighter in weights (that really tests me, I have a 157g star leopard that requires real control). But you don't have to throw as hard with lighter weights.
Honestly I would just learn how to throw and own with an understable like a leopard or sidewinder. Overstable discs are relatively easy to learn and won't help you too much in form.

Just curious, how much would you sell your roc3?
Thanks for the tip on weight, I'll consider that going forward. I haven't thrown the Roc3 yet - I assume I'll be liking it. I beat my Star Roc down a bit and it comes in a bit hot on Anny's now. I liked that when it was new, it would bail out of Anny's and drop to the ground like it had a parachute (I developed a use for that). That said, I do anticipate using both less in favor of the aviar and tangent until I'm dialed in down there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
I hear you, I did the same thing years ago. I'm still "going back to basics" to try and break this plateau in my form.

I think you can parse your bag down a bit more if you wanted to. I think it's best to have a workhorse driver, mid, and putter to really learn in and out. You've got some good discs to re-learn how to throw with like the Leopard and by all accounts the Amp and Tangent sound good. The Leo and Amp might fight for shots as well as the Warship, Roc and Tangent so you might have to pick a favorite.

What I do recommend is easing off the Rhyno and getting an Aviar to drive with or if you really want something to teach you some basic disc throwing fundamentals look into a Polecat, Rattler or similar lid style disc.

Edit: Saw your disc notes. If you really want to master a Leo, get one in DX or Pro. Way more glide and will really teach you how shape lines.
Thanks for your advice. One thought I had was using firmer plastic to have longer to see how the disc flew in it's true state to get used to it, but I will try a Leo in DX since I am already quite familiar with it.

You're also spot on with the assessment of the competition within the bag. I'm just playing a hunch with the MVP stuff. The Tangent rim looked slower than my Roc's, but faster than the aviar. The reviews seemed positive toward my goals and I felt like buying myself new toys for my pared down bag Time will tell if they get used or added to my scraped missile program in the closet.

K.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:50 AM
tu-f-o tu-f-o is online now
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[QUOTE=thePiRaTE;1909344]Thanks for the tip on weight, I'll consider that going forward. I haven't thrown the Roc3 yet - I assume I'll be liking it. I beat my Star Roc down a bit and it comes in a bit hot on Anny's now. I liked that when it was new, it would bail out of Anny's and drop to the ground like it had a parachute (I developed a use for that). That said, I do anticipate using both less in favor of the aviar and tangent until I'm dialed in down there.

Honestly I bet you can still anny that same exact disc without so much heat if you modified your form. Maybe back off of your anny angle a bit or just power down on the same angle that you normally use. Also remember that wind will change all of this, just have to adjust accordingly.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:35 PM
Agricolae Agricolae is offline
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Just a suggestion for practice, or practice rounds: Pick your favorite putter, get 3 of them, and go play your course(s). Throw 3 shots off the tee, then hole out with each disc. Keep doing this. You *will* get better in your form, distance, course management skills, and shot arsenal.

Advantages: You don't have to carry a bag. You don't have to decide which disc mold to throw. You will KNOW that mold in all conditions, in all reachable distances. Your accuracy will improve. You'll learn to throw smooth. Because you're throwing smoother and slower, it's easier to feel/focus on different parts of the mechanics/throw. You'll spend a lot less time in the rough. People will ask, "That was a putter? Is it a "regular" [fill in putter name]? How do you throw it that far?" You'll have absolute confidence in your ability to put that disc out to X-feet and land it on a dime. You can pick up your "driver"/"mid-range" and putt it out because they are the same disc.

Disadvantages: Less distance (so now you may want to learn a putter roller ... bingo! ... double your distance on favorable ground). People may think you're a noob walking around with only 3 discs and no bag (let your game speak for itself). Single mold limits your shot-shaping options (but forces you to learn to throw and be versatile with what you have.)

Admittedly, I might not enjoy putter-only rounds as much if my local course were wide-open with +800' holes. If instead, you have courses with 200'-500' holes that include some trees, you may be surprised at how well you can score. I have been surprised at how much farther my mids, fairways, and distance drivers fly, and with much less effort, after doing this for a while.

Oh, another potential disadvantage ... if you just love throwing drivers, you may have to spend more time with field work since, on the course, you'll find more holes are best played with your putter.

It's something that is working for me. Of course, your mileage and tastes may vary. Good luck!
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:11 PM
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Dan Ensor Dan Ensor is online now
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Get some video. Critique it yourself, or post it here to get feedback. I either use my computer's webcam or my buddy's smart phone camera.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:30 AM
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thePiRaTE thePiRaTE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu-f-o View Post
Honestly I bet you can still anny that same exact disc without so much heat if you modified your form...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agricolae View Post
Just a suggestion for practice, or practice rounds: Pick your favorite putter, get 3 of them, and go play your course(s). Throw 3 shots off the tee, then hole out with each disc. Keep doing this. You *will* get better in your form, distance, course management skills, and shot arsenal... Good luck!
I like this. I have committed to ground up improvement and these comments are closer to the ground. I don't care how it looks to others, my own gratification will suffice (assuming I make strides, but I'm sure I will).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Ensor View Post
Get some video. Critique it yourself, or post it here to get feedback. I either use my computer's webcam or my buddy's smart phone camera.
Noted. I have a feeling making discs I am unaccustomed to throwing for specific effects (ie driving with neutral putters, etc) will teach me some stuff. If I hit a wall again in this, I'll call in the troops.

Thanks for the advice fellas.


K.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:56 AM
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KnightsDG KnightsDG is offline
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Awesome thread! I saw that you said you might want something more stiff I think the KC Pro Aviar would be perfect for what your trying to do. I am a noob who is starting out with a disc down strategy and was having problems with my putter so I started a thread here asking for advice and came to the conclusion that the KC Pro Aviar was what I wanted. I have had it for a little over a week now and haven't thrown anything else since. Its an awesome disc man, it is literally the first disc I feel like I always have control of. Agricolae just gave me the perfect excuse to go buy a couple more I really like that all putter round idea. Looks like my Leo and Shark will be hibernating for a while.
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