#31  
Old 04-11-2013, 01:55 PM
JUST_able JUST_able is offline
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g9i wizards are the best. the best i tell you.
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  #32  
Old 04-11-2013, 02:45 PM
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PMantle PMantle is offline
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Well, I'm a pretty terrible putter, and have been using a Soft Magnet and Soft Judge. May need to switch to the Classic I have or Ion. Or, go get a more firm Magnet.
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  #33  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:30 PM
Tmart Tmart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
I disagree that a stiff putter is absolutely necessary. I've push putted with putters of various stiffness. It's true that stiff putter can be easier, but it's not a must have if you don't like the grip of stiff putters like M wizards or KC Aviars.
Well it doesn't have to be the stiffest putter you can find but it does have to have a flight plate that doesn't flex. When you push/pitch putt with a flight plate that flexes it creates an upside down trampoline effect and the disc will pop off of your fingers milliseconds after you actually released it instead of immediately as a stiff putter would. This causes it to stay in contact with your middle and ring fingers even after your thumb, pinky and pointer finger have released the disc which imparts force to an off-center part of the underside of the disc causing floppyness and innaccuracy.

If you have a hybrid push/pitch putt that also includes some wrist spinning then it's not so much of an issue because you actually impart the spin slightly after your middle and ring finger are done applying force to the bottom of the flight plate.


There's a reason that Nikko and Feldberg use super stiff discs for this and tell everyone to follow suit at their putting clinics.

Last edited by Tmart; 04-11-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:36 PM
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SteezeOG SteezeOG is offline
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I spin putt but when I was finding my way back to it I dabbled in the push. I thought the Pure was a good putter for it but now I'm using judges and with one that is beat to straight it works pretty good.
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  #35  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:49 PM
Asian Style Asian Style is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmart View Post
Well it doesn't have to be the stiffest putter you can find but it does have to have a flight plate that doesn't flex. When you push/pitch putt with a flight plate that flexes it creates an upside down trampoline effect and the disc will pop off of your fingers milliseconds after you actually released it instead of immediately as a stiff putter would. This causes it to stay in contact with your middle and ring fingers even after your thumb, pinky and pointer finger have released the disc which imparts force to an off-center part of the underside of the disc causing floppyness and innaccuracy.

If you have a hybrid push/pitch putt that also includes some wrist spinning then it's not so much of an issue because you actually impart the spin slightly after your middle and ring finger are done applying force to the bottom of the flight plate.


There's a reason that Nikko and Feldberg use super stiff discs for this and tell everyone to follow suit at their putting clinics.
Hey Tmart, thanks for the comment, that is something else I've been wondering.

I am mostly looking for a stiff putter replacement because of the ugly wobble I sometimes get. As my form has been improving and I'm getting better at the weight shift and timing, the wobble has reduced dramatically. When I first started it was so incredibly ugly and now it sometimes almost looks like a spin putt it's so smooth when I nail everything right. I am guessing my Aviar P&A is probably in the middle of the stiffness spectrum.

No one that I have seen has ever actually explained the physics of why stiff putters for push/pitch putting. I think I understand what you're saying but I'm having a hard time of visualizing how that actually works. In my grip, I use a fan grip where the first crook of my index finger is against the edge of the bead and the rest of the fingers are out towards the middle of the plate to give me the cleanest release possible. I was under the impression that "finger spring" is really just the term for getting your fingers off the disc as cleanly and quickly as possible. My wrist is locked, my grip is loose-firm, like the amount of pressure to hold a small glass of water. I feel like the small amount of spin I'm getting is from the friction of my fingertips "pulling" the disc in a clockwise direction. Very very small but important movement, I've taken this to mean the "pop" people talk about. So given all that, how am I imparting enough force under the disc to cause this reverse trampoline effect when my middle fingers under the plate are pulling away from the plate as quickly and cleanly as possible? I'm just hoping you can shed further light and give more details on exactly why stiff putters "work better" for push/pitch putting?

I've been documenting my learning process as someone who wants to learn pitch putting from scratch and I've been taking notes. I hope to release it all at some point so that others can benefit from it and any info you could contribute on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks
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  #36  
Old 04-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Asian Style Asian Style is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwingles View Post
OP, what kind of stability/glide are you wanting?

You can eliminate many options by answering that.

(I only read page 1 so if you did answer that, sorry)
See, I'm not even sure there, I'm open to suggestions from people who are pro at the push putt. I'm a student here and I don't know what I need to know. I think I heard Nikko say in a video once that his main putter was understable but I could be wrong. I know he uses different stability putters for various situations.

I notice that I have less wobble and smoother putts on a slight hyzer line. If I try and "pop" it up to flat or angle my wrist to try and make it fly flat as possible to the basket, it wobbles like crazy. I've tried many times to make sure my swing is on the same plane so that I'm not oating it, but to no avail. I'm not sure if this is to be expected or I'm doing something wrong though.

I'm using a seasoned Aviar P&A, so I am guessing that it is a little understable.

As for glide, I also use a Vibram Ridge for driving and I've tried that and it feels like it has less glide than my P&A and I don't think I like it.

I am still working on my form and weight shifting but anything that helps me get it to the basket from 20' out would help, I'm assuming more glide will be better for that. Unless there is a downside?

Last edited by Asian Style; 04-11-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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  #37  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:12 PM
PCDG13 PCDG13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justactnormal View Post
but I also think that a stiffer, overstable putter in general is the best type of disc for this style of putt.

why is an overstable putter better for this style than a more neutral? Just curious.
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  #38  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:19 PM
Apoth Apoth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCDG13 View Post
why is an overstable putter better for this style than a more neutral? Just curious.
I personally prefer a little straighter for that style, but some like more OS. It kind of depends on the flight you want out of it. Some like to hyzer putt with their push putts. I preferred to run more straight at it.
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  #39  
Old 04-11-2013, 06:37 PM
Asian Style Asian Style is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
I personally prefer a little straighter for that style, but some like more OS. It kind of depends on the flight you want out of it. Some like to hyzer putt with their push putts. I preferred to run more straight at it.
Btw, my slight hyzer putt goes straight at the basket inside 20'. I usually don't have issues with it fading too soon. Maybe because it's stable to understable that helps with that kind of flight? I don't know. I will probably run into fading issues at longer distances when I have to loft more and it has more time to fade out and I will have to compensate.
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  #40  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:51 PM
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captain jack captain jack is offline
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I push with the Medium Ridge in my current avatar.

VP is my circle putter, but I hated having to hyzer it way out to the side to get it to the basket on longer push's.

Push is harder since you have no room to wind up and get some good rotation on the disc.
With the Ridge I can take the hyzer out and just go straight for the tape.
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