#1  
Old 09-24-2013, 04:22 PM
bfowler bfowler is offline
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AH-HA, Forward Shoulder Turn!!!

I've been working on my driving technique on and off since I started playing 14 months ago. A lot of field work, video critiques, reading threads, etc. I would take steps forwards and think I was on to something only to max out at 300 or a little over. For a while I would hit 350 on rare occasions.

Five or six weeks ago I got the bright idea to break down the drives of Will Schusterick, Paul McBeth and Dave Feldberg. I took screen caps at certain points in the slow motion video clips they have on youtube. I worked on mimicking exactly what they were doing because after studying them they all did almost the exact same thing at certain points.

It's paid off quite a bit in my accuracy game but it hasn't added much to my distance. I'm barely making 300 half the time. I couldn't figure out what was wrong.

The today I found the answer. Forward shoulder/core turn/pull/rotation.

I'm not sure what sparked it but before I'd turn to reach back, keeping my balance, shift my weight forward, snap my hips open pulling my arm in the right peck position and then pull hard with my arm spinning on my heel. The problem was that while I was turning my hips to start the whip I wasn't turning my shoulders/core very much at all.

I'm really thinking now that the core turn and the wrist snap (rotation of the disc around the pivot point) are the secrets of power in a throw because they are the quickest turns and thus generate the most torque. I was getting torque with my hips, stopping with my shoulder and then getting torque again with my snap. The motion of my hand going around my body is what started to pull me around when it should be my core/shoulder turn whipping my arm/elbow/wrist. My shoulder turn didn't really start until the disc was almost leaving my hand. My arm was actually pulling my shoulder instead of the other way around.

I haven't had time to practice this a lot yet as I discovered this at the end of my lunch break and only got in 4-5 throws. I'm not sure the distance but they flew straighter and stayed in the air longer than I'm used to and it felt really, really easy and powerful. I'll go to my usual field tonight to get some actual distance.

Sorry for the novel but I'm really excited. Congrats to anyone who read that wall of text.
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2013, 04:54 PM
Dublicious Dublicious is offline
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Well I read that wall, and I'm going to try it!
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:10 PM
MoundsPounds MoundsPounds is offline
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I look forward to hearing your results. I too, seem to be constantly breaking down video trying to get out past 250'. Then when I play I still get my everage 225 to 250 shots. However, I see people at the course with no x step, no big reach back or anything and they bomb out to 350'. Man I'd love to get a bit of distance.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:19 PM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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Sounds like you discovered the whole "loading up your series of levers at the right time" part. Yeah, it's pretty important and sadly elusive when you've got as much bad muscle memory as I do, lol.

Congrats, hope it continues. The tricky part is going too fast too soon and losing that feeling.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:47 PM
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Jesterian Jesterian is offline
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Now try to push that upper body turn as far back into the throw as you can. Ie. Do as much as you can with your lower body before you begin the upper body part of the throw, after the reachback. The later into that motion you can start, the more likely you will be synchronizing your lower body power with the upper body power.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:14 PM
BuddyBody BuddyBody is offline
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I too have hit the oh so common 300 foot wall and I think you may have hit on what I am also missing. Can't wait to try this unfortunately its a very rainy day
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:45 PM
bfowler bfowler is offline
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I had some time for field work today and it was very hit and miss. I couldn't get that same feeling I found the other day. My timing was all messed up. I think I tried to get ahead of myself and was trying it with my X step whereas the other day I was standing still.

I don't even realize it until I got home. I got frustrated and just started doing right peck drills. I can feel when I pull with my arm and when I turn my hips and shoulders. About 2 out of 10 throws I'd feel and get the timing right and the disc would fly dead straight about 150 feet easy as pie. I can tell when I time it right because it's so smooth. When I miss the timing I can feel it, usually in my shoulder because I've pulled with my arm.

Man, this is beyond frustrating. I'm so close to taking a lesson.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:02 PM
bfowler bfowler is offline
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Ok, did some thinking and reading. I thinking shoulder turn was only part of what got me some of those great hits the other day. I rewatched some of Beto videos and he mentioned something that caught my attention. He said starting your pull just past your right peck instead of in the middle/right peck would get you another 50-100 feet.

I looked at where I start my pull and where my shoulders are when I do pull. I'm still 90 degrees to the target with my elbow out and the disc right inside my right peck. I'd always thought that the hip rotation was supposed to get you to that point, then you pull and spin on your heel.

I also looked at some videos of some of the top guys to see where their shoulders are when their elbow stops and where their elbow stops when the forearm start it's rotation around the elbow. All of them have already turned to about 60 degrees and their elbow stops their forearm is about 50 degree from the target.

I'm way, way behind that. My forearm starts to rotate out when I'm in the right peck position, 90 degrees from the basket with my elbow forming a triangle with the point of my elbow pointing at the basket. By this time I've stopped my hip rotation and the momentum from my torso/arm turns me. Not only is my whole kinetic chain out of wack I've taken the disc off the line and started to round my drive. I don't get that sudden change of direction that launches the disc.

Now I'm going to try to let my hips and then shoulders continue their rotation until the torque in the front right of my hip forces the heel pivot and by then I'm a lot more facing towards the basket when I start my pull. Every time I think I'm waiting as late as possible for the late acceleration I'm still too early.

Look at any video of the pros and they plant their plant foot 90 degree (roughly) to the target. Look at where the disc, shoulders, elbow and hip are when their toes start to turn. They are at the point where if they did not begin to rotate on their heel they would snap their ankle. They have built up a crapload of torque and energy by keeping that plant leg from turning while the rest of the body does that when the energy is released it's like an explosion.

Look at the video below at about the 12 second mark. It's in slow motion so it's hard to pause it at exactly the right time but try to get it right before they start their heel pivot. Will has the most torque. Look at his right knee. It's facing us. His left knee is facing the ground. His shoulders and forearm are about 60 degree and he not far from facing the target.

I'll report back after another practice session. I'll either have some success or a snapped ankle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfjia...bACd4rq_FsH6gv
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:57 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Sounds like you are describing a classic spin out due to sequencing/leverage issue where you start to swing before your weight transfers. First transfer weight from behind you to the front leg, then swing and release your levers. What you are seeing in the forearm release where Beto talks about going from back here to up here is 60-100' or more is like where you would create a "divot" early/behind/around you, and the pros are creating a bigger straighter "divot" that goes later/closer to the target releasing heavy momentum targetward. Keeping your front foot/hip closed on the plant is correct. These should help:
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2013, 11:27 PM
bfowler bfowler is offline
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HOLY CRAP! Seriously. H-O-L-Y C-R-A-P.

That first video just make my head explode. I actually understand exactly what he's talking about.

Can't wait to try presetting my booty.
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