#2071  
Old 09-03-2013, 02:32 AM
brandocommando9 brandocommando9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hammer View Post
It will probably be back after football season.
You from Washington hammer or do you just like the Seahawks?

Sorry in advance for the thread drift lol!
  #2072  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:21 AM
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The Hammer The Hammer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandocommando9 View Post
You from Washington hammer or do you just like the Seahawks?

Sorry in advance for the thread drift lol!
I'm originally from Seattle. Been a Seahawks fan my whole life.
  #2073  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:07 AM
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discspeed discspeed is offline
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Originally Posted by in4d View Post
A bead does not make the ion harder to throw, nor does a bead exaggerate a bad throw.

The feel may be uncomfortable to some people. other than that,

A bead will allow you to put more power into a throw and the disc should hold the line you put it on longer. A Beaded putter should also stay flying the same for a longer period of time, added durability. More Wind Resistance.
I guess I'll weigh in...

First, what is a bead? This is not such an easy question. Some beads are big and round, like a cylindrical ring stuck to the bottom of the disc. Others are just a barely perceptible protrusion out the bottom of a disc. MVP's "beads" are just part of the core sticking out from the overmold. Some discs are even more confusing because they have a protrusion on the bottom of the disc that is significant (Flying Squirrel, Pain, Shark). Some consider these beads, others don't. Because of this it is hard to even nail down what a bead is, let alone exactly what it does.

A bead doesn't do anything directly to stability, wind resistance, or line holding. It touches all these things in an indirect and complex way.

Bead and stability: A bead does not necessarily an overstable disc make. You can beat a beaded base plastic disc understable without hurting the bead very much. Some beaded discs are never overstable (Comet, Tangent). Beads seem to add some high speed stability, but since the shape of the wing is still more important it doesn't do this equally to all discs.
Low speed stability is also much more determined by wing shape. Also, I don't think that a bead makes a disc more LSS at all...It adds to the HSS, which makes a disc start it's fade earlier. It also keeps a lot of discs from turning just a little, which also makes for a larger fade.

Bead and wind resistance: First off, what is wind resistance in disc golf? Is it a disc's ability to hold it's line across various wind conditions? Or is it a disc's ability to go the same distance with the same force across wind conditions? I think we normally talk of wind resistance as some combination of these two things, though some people often have one or the other as the major player in their personal understanding.

A bead tends to slow the rate of high speed turn, which helps it with line predictability in the wind. However, in terms of aerodynamics a bead actually catches more air and slows down faster as the headwind speed picks up.

So a bead makes a disc better in the wind on one dimension, but worse on the other. Net loss/gain = zero. It becomes a matter of personal choice which dimension of wind resistance is most important to you.

Bead and line holding: Since a bead slows the rate of high speed turn, a bead can make a neutral/understable disc hold a line better because it does not "turn and burn" as much. However, most beads are on stable to overstable discs. On these discs the bead hurts line holding ability as a beaded disc needs to be thrown harder to keep from fading early.

It should also be mentioned that a bead makes a disc slower to recover from OAT as well, so in this way it can accentuate a bad throw.

In terms of how a beaded comes out of your hand...This is personal and involves a million other factors. However, if you are getting any OAT on your beaded discs it will take them longer to recover. I've seen novice players using beaded discs because they can get them to hold their OAT longer and fly fairly straight because they don't throw hard enough cleanly to make the disc fly how it would for a more skilled player.

And if you don't want to read something this long, don't discuss things as complicated as a bead's influence on disc flight.
  #2074  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:15 AM
Hoss22 Hoss22 is offline
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  #2075  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:16 AM
Hoss22 Hoss22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hammer View Post
I'm originally from Seattle. Been a Seahawks fan my whole life.
GO HAWKS!
  #2076  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:24 AM
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GO HAWKS!
  #2077  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:12 AM
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in4d in4d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discspeed View Post
I guess I'll weigh in...

First, what is a bead? This is not such an easy question. Some beads are big and round, like a cylindrical ring stuck to the bottom of the disc. Others are just a barely perceptible protrusion out the bottom of a disc. MVP's "beads" are just part of the core sticking out from the overmold. Some discs are even more confusing because they have a protrusion on the bottom of the disc that is significant (Flying Squirrel, Pain, Shark). Some consider these beads, others don't. Because of this it is hard to even nail down what a bead is, let alone exactly what it does.

A bead doesn't do anything directly to stability, wind resistance, or line holding. It touches all these things in an indirect and complex way.

Bead and stability: A bead does not necessarily an overstable disc make. You can beat a beaded base plastic disc understable without hurting the bead very much. Some beaded discs are never overstable (Comet, Tangent). Beads seem to add some high speed stability, but since the shape of the wing is still more important it doesn't do this equally to all discs.
Low speed stability is also much more determined by wing shape. Also, I don't think that a bead makes a disc more LSS at all...It adds to the HSS, which makes a disc start it's fade earlier. It also keeps a lot of discs from turning just a little, which also makes for a larger fade.

Bead and wind resistance: First off, what is wind resistance in disc golf? Is it a disc's ability to hold it's line across various wind conditions? Or is it a disc's ability to go the same distance with the same force across wind conditions? I think we normally talk of wind resistance as some combination of these two things, though some people often have one or the other as the major player in their personal understanding.

A bead tends to slow the rate of high speed turn, which helps it with line predictability in the wind. However, in terms of aerodynamics a bead actually catches more air and slows down faster as the headwind speed picks up.

So a bead makes a disc better in the wind on one dimension, but worse on the other. Net loss/gain = zero. It becomes a matter of personal choice which dimension of wind resistance is most important to you.

Bead and line holding: Since a bead slows the rate of high speed turn, a bead can make a neutral/understable disc hold a line better because it does not "turn and burn" as much. However, most beads are on stable to overstable discs. On these discs the bead hurts line holding ability as a beaded disc needs to be thrown harder to keep from fading early.

It should also be mentioned that a bead makes a disc slower to recover from OAT as well, so in this way it can accentuate a bad throw.

In terms of how a beaded comes out of your hand...This is personal and involves a million other factors. However, if you are getting any OAT on your beaded discs it will take them longer to recover. I've seen novice players using beaded discs because they can get them to hold their OAT longer and fly fairly straight because they don't throw hard enough cleanly to make the disc fly how it would for a more skilled player.

And if you don't want to read something this long, don't discuss things as complicated as a bead's influence on disc flight.
Thanks for spending the time discspeed, i agree with everything you said and its a more detailed explanation of what i said in the first place.

  #2078  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:46 AM
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threevok threevok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in4d View Post
Thanks for spending the time discspeed, i agree with everything you said and its a more detailed explanation of what i said in the first place.

Yes, discspeed's detailed explanation: "It should also be mentioned that a bead makes a disc slower to recover from OAT as well, so in this way it can accentuate a bad throw" made your proclamation: "A bead does not make the ion harder to throw, nor does a bead exaggerate a bad throw" seem much more comprehensible.
  #2079  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:56 AM
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Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
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and like I said MOST IMPORTANTLY it boils down to feel.

Thanks for the 411 Discspeed-- I was trying to put it out there as simply as possible like you say with beads there is no real answer as to what the bead does, outside of the exact mold which it is on.

I always found Blake's DGR write up on the subject of "Disc Qualities and Effects on Flight" very informational as it provides one of the best generalizations which there is no real general rule to.

Quote:
IV. Rim Stabilizers – Rim Characteristics and Flight
While the overall shape and contour of the rim will determine the disc's overall flight, there are a few design factors that make the disc fly more high speed stable and fade more predictably at the end of their flight. The two most noticeable of these design factors can take the form of a bead (either prominently rounded or a very abrupt slope change) at the bottom of the rim or a notch (flat spot) at the very edge of the wing. Both of these characteristics will aid in the structural rigidity and overall durability of the disc but also affect its flight.

As a general rule of thumb, a bead on the rim will yield a slight increase in high-speed stability and in some cases (mainly those with a prominently rounded bead) it helps delay low speed fade. While it has been debated whether or not a bead does affect disc flight, my experiences with beaded and non-beaded versions of the same model discs as well as factored discs that have had the bead removed have generally yielded these results.
 

  #2080  
Old 09-03-2013, 05:26 PM
brandocommando9 brandocommando9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hammer View Post
I'm originally from Seattle. Been a Seahawks fan my whole life.
I went to the Seahawks vs broncos per season game it was pretty damn awesome 40 to 10 lol had awesome seats too 50 yard line third row up. My girlfreind loves the Seahawks and that was her birthday present prolly the best one she's ever got!
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