#151  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
I challenge anyone and everyone to simply ask anyone who plays my event this weekend what they thought. Please do.
I'm playing in Robert's event this weekend so I'll let everybody know.
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  #152  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grodney View Post
This is really short-sighted of you, Robert.

The tournament scene, and the game as a whole, would be SO much better off if tournaments were run by commercial enterprises.
.. I think that's pretty short sighted by you to just assume the commercialization of something makes it better...
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  #153  
Old 07-18-2013, 01:51 AM
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Dave242 Dave242 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
And I've seen a tremendous improvement in Charlotte events in the last few years. And I'll stop here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
Why do you feel travel players deserve to be compensated well by you?

Because our sport needs numbers to improve. And great payouts get numbers at events.
I really have not kept up with the goings on of the tournament scene in Charlotte since I left (exactly 5 years ago). I want to take you at your word, and I want to verify. So, I put the stats together (below).

Here are my observations comparing A & B Tiers in 2005-2007 (when I was involved) and 2011-2013 (the last 3 years):
Am:
Big Am events doubled in number
Average Am attendance went from 60 to 147 (145% growth)
Pro:
No longer any Big events for Pros (none at all in 2010)
Average Pro attendance went from 60 to 35 (58% shrinkage)
Average Pro payday went from $101 to $76 (down 25%)

With the last statement of yours I quoted, I have no earthly idea how you can say this is improvement (remember, your comments are discussing adding cash and players to the Pro side).
From my perspective, it is wonderful. I pushed hard for growing both the weekly leagues and Am side of PDGA events as this is what I believe the sport most needs. The CDGC has absolutely killed it in that area (and are sucking wind at what you state is important).

I can guarantee that administratively the events from 05-07 were top shelf (communication, disclosure, smoothness of events, score reporting, TD reports, etc). That could not have been improved on much.

Amenity wise, things were very good (score cards, caddy books, ground rules sheets, water stations, Joy4lly refreshment stand, players party, etc). There was certainly room for improvement, but is it even 50% better now?

MTL, unless you can point to aspects of tournaments that have improved incredibly (OK OK I'm not there and neither is TTrim), again your words are shown to be empty.....and if not deceitful, certainly full of wild contradiction. You are certainly entitled to your own opinions and perceptions.....but look over this at tell me that they do not match reality:

Code:
Players	Ams	Pros	Purse	$/Pro	Tier	Tournament
2003						
98	74	24	$3,925	$164	2 Day A	Disc Landing Fall Finale
2004						
118	61	57	$7,205	$126	2 Day A	Disc Landing Fall Finale
2005						
115	50	65	$7,790	$120	2 Day A	Charlotte Open
2006						
90	44	46	$3,057	$66	2 Day B	FriZZak Open
129	63	66	$6,991	$106	2 Day A	Charlotte Open
2007						
145	82	63	$7,042	$112	2 Day A	Charlotte Open
2008						
150	81	69	$11,052	$160	2 Day A	Carolina Clash
2009						
145	90	55	$8,017	$146	2 Day A	Carolina Clash
2010						
162	162				2 Day A	Charlotte Amateur Championship
2011						
143	116	27	$2,100	$78	2 Day B	Carolina Clash
243	243				2 Day A	Charlotte Amateur Championship
2012						
281	209	72	$5,140	$71	2 Day B	Carolina Clash by Dynamic Discs
238	238				2 Day A	Charlotte Amateur Championships by DD
33	19	14	$1,188	$85	1 Day B	Charlotte Masters Championship PIAS
2013						
68	41	27	$1,865	$69	1 Day B	Charlotte Masters Championship - by PIAS
171	134	37	$2,755	$74	2 Day B	Carolina Clash by Dynamic Discs
175	175				2 Day A	Charlotte Amateur Championships by DD

Last edited by Dave242; 07-18-2013 at 01:54 AM.
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  #154  
Old 07-18-2013, 01:58 AM
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One other important stat:
Total Am Attendance went from 239 to 1175 (up 392%)
Total Pro Attendance went from 240 to 177 (down 26%)
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  #155  
Old 07-18-2013, 04:04 AM
texhop58 texhop58 is offline
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For those who haven't ran anything and feel like tds shouldn't get some kind of compensation. Run a couple of events. I am not trying to be funny or smart. Like I said in a previous post I recently ran two small events as a fundraiser for a course and brought in 72 and 50 players. These two events was enough for me to have a new prospective on this. It's a lot of work and for the most part a thankless job. There are some of the players who have thanked me for doing something, but sadly more who find something to complain about.
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  #156  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:55 AM
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dusty5150 dusty5150 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texhop58 View Post
For those who haven't ran anything and feel like tds shouldn't get some kind of compensation. Run a couple of events. I am not trying to be funny or smart. Like I said in a previous post I recently ran two small events as a fundraiser for a course and brought in 72 and 50 players. These two events was enough for me to have a new prospective on this. It's a lot of work and for the most part a thankless job. There are some of the players who have thanked me for doing something, but sadly more who find something to complain about.
I'll second this. I've been running events for a long time and almost every time a new local TD runs an event they comment to me afterwards on the new found understanding and respect they have. Normally the comment is something like; players always say they know its a lot of work and always thank the TD, but until I ran an event I really had no idea.
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  #157  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:03 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave242 View Post
I'm not there and neither is TTrim
This is so ignorant, so incorrect and so beyond current times it's not even funny.

But look at the source. Excel likely said that this was the case therefore it must be true.
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  #158  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty5150 View Post
I'll second this. I've been running events for a long time and almost every time a new local TD runs an event they comment to me afterwards on the new found understanding and respect they have. Normally the comment is something like; players always say they know its a lot of work and always thank the TD, but until I ran an event I really had no idea.
The surprise for new TDs is often not what's involved at the tournament, but before and after.
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  #159  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:29 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
This is so ignorant, so incorrect and so beyond current times it's not even funny.

But look at the source. Excel likely said that this was the case therefore it must be true.
Sorry I misread your statement.

I get why you said that now.
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  #160  
Old 07-18-2013, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
This is so ignorant, so incorrect and so beyond current times it's not even funny.

But look at the source. Excel likely said that this was the case therefore it must be true.
Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not there. I do not see BS, SJ, JL, and or JL on the lists.... So that part is accurate. If it is funny or if that makes an event better event is up to the reader to decide. Being beyond current times is the point as I am trying to get an understanding of current times and comparing them to when I was around.

So other than picking out one little quip and poo pooing evidence that refutes your stated criteria and ignoring other assertions I made........what is so much better today about their events than in the past? All I have is this Excel data to go on and it is not enough to get a good picture.....So please provide the facts that back up your assertion.
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