#31  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:15 PM
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jeverett jeverett is offline
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I agree. The S-hooks are a part of the chain assembly, and a disc entrapped in the chains is 'in'.
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  #32  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:46 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Chains
A deflection assembly which is designed to direct a thrown disc down into the tray component of a basket target.

Chain Support
The structure from which the chains are suspended; a deflector support which often forms the top of a basket target.

802.05 Holing Out
A. Basket Targets: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc that enters the target below the top of the tray or above the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.
It boils down to whether the S-hooks were "designed to direct a thrown disc down into the tray component of a basket target" or the S-hooks are part of "the structure from which the chains are suspended."

I think we can assume they were designed to direct the disc down. Besides, if they weren't it would mean that a disc that entered the target above the bottom of the S-hooks would not be "in", even if it dropped into the tray.
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:04 PM
bombmk bombmk is offline
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"A disc is considered to be at rest once it is no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw. A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind. "

Anyone else find that to be a somewhat problematic description of what constitutes at rest?

I can't be the only one to have had roll-aways moving due to nothing else but wind? I once had a putt bounce off the front of the cage, drop down - and then the wind took it and rolled 60+ feet away on flat ground - past the basket from my position. (OB even)

Any momentum imparted on it by the throw was clearly lost the moment it hit the ground.
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  #34  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:10 PM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmk View Post
"A disc is considered to be at rest once it is no longer moving as a result of the momentum imparted by the throw. A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind. "

Anyone else find that to be a somewhat problematic description of what constitutes at rest?

I can't be the only one to have had roll-aways moving due to nothing else but wind? I once had a putt bounce off the front of the cage, drop down - and then the wind took it and rolled 60+ feet away on flat ground - past the basket from my position. (OB even)

Any momentum imparted on it by the throw was clearly lost the moment it hit the ground.
This exact discussion is ongoing in another thread.

Keep in mind that momentum is not necessarily forward. You can hit the ground and have the disc bounce around and it's all momentum from the throw. If, in the process, it stands up on edge and begins to roll, that is still momentum from the throw.

I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.
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  #35  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:31 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
This exact discussion is ongoing in another thread.

Keep in mind that momentum is not necessarily forward. You can hit the ground and have the disc bounce around and it's all momentum from the throw. If, in the process, it stands up on edge and begins to roll, that is still momentum from the throw.

I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.
Agreed.

If someone does think the wind alone can propel a disc, then try this experiment. On a windy day, place a disc in any configuration (on edge, tilted left, tilted right, etc.) and completely still. Then see the wind "move it." After that post the video of the experiment on this thread.
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  #36  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:35 PM
bombmk bombmk is offline
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Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.
You are going to have to trust me on this one. I hit the basket, it bounced back towards me, fell to the ground and did that "dyeing coin spin" (don't know how else to describe it) on the edge - and then it just stood up straight and started rolling away. Any momentum I imparted on it was long gone at this point.
The disc started falling to the ground 3 times during the roll - still got picked up and kept on wobbling along.
The wind was not even that insane - it was quite strong, but not a hurricane.
I think it just hit the disc just right into the back side.

There was about seven guys watching it - and laughing their asses off when it rolled OB - myself included.
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  #37  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:40 PM
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jeverett jeverett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradharris View Post
I can't imagine any way a disc can be propelled by wind alone. Certainly it can be aided by the wind, but there's no way the wind can actually be the only force propelling your disc forward.
How about something like this, then?

Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly. Click here to see how YouTube videos should be embedded. There could also be a technical issue that's not your fault. Click here to view the video on YouTube's site. If this link doesn't work, you did something wrong.

That disc is traveling in the entirely opposite vector from the one imparted on it by the player.
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  #38  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:40 PM
bombmk bombmk is offline
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500m roller - and its basically just started off with a soft forehand roller. Take a look at 00:50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-plix7XMa0

Last edited by bombmk; 09-10-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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  #39  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:41 PM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombmk View Post
You are going to have to trust me on this one. I hit the basket, it bounced back towards me, fell to the ground and did that "dyeing coin spin" (don't know how else to describe it) on the edge - and then it just stood up straight and started rolling away. Any momentum I imparted on it was long gone at this point.
The disc started falling to the ground 3 times during the roll - still got picked up and kept on wobbling along.
The wind was not even that insane - it was quite strong, but not a hurricane.
I think it just hit the disc just right into the back side.

There was about seven guys watching it - and laughing their asses off when it rolled OB - myself included.
Was it rolling downhill? I can't even begin to picture this happening on flat ground.
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  #40  
Old 09-10-2013, 05:46 PM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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I had to reread the rule, important aspect bolded.

"A disc in water or foliage is considered to be at rest once it is moving only as a result of movement of the water, the foliage, or the wind."

This is not a general rule that applies to any throw. It applies to a throw that lands in water or in a tree or bush.

The wind aspect is essentially just saying that a disc cannot be blown out of a tree by wind.
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