#171  
Old 12-30-2013, 12:14 AM
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Titanic_Sinks Titanic_Sinks is online now
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I swear that I read a thread based on the exact same Climo statement on that other discy reviewy website. I think it boiled down to somebody taking Mr. 300' of deadly accuracy and 30' chain banger, and plugging him in to 7 major NT events of that year. If I recall correctly, he would have won 5/7. I think there was something about if he could throw 325' and make 35' and in, he would have won all of them. I'm not saying I think it's possible, but it is something to ponder. Or maybe I just made that up from some mis-remembered other crap...
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  #172  
Old 12-30-2013, 12:43 AM
SlickNick SlickNick is offline
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Originally Posted by BigSky View Post
Actually my whole argument is that it takes a lot of things. And huge distance is not one them.
Point taken. I also agree it takes more than distance. I think we may just disagree on what huge distance is.
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  #173  
Old 12-30-2013, 01:00 AM
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Star Shark Star Shark is offline
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Barry doesn't throw nearly as far as he used to. After he broke his hand at the Memorial a few years ago, his grip hasn't been quite as strong. This causes a reduction in power.
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  #174  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:25 AM
tomdizzlefizzle tomdizzlefizzle is online now
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Barry can throw 450+ still and I consider that big.
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  #175  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:47 AM
wake911 wake911 is offline
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The big difference between the pros and us DGCR posters is this. When we post distance we throw our driver, it is MAX D without accuracy, that we pulled off 1 time in a lucky wind, haha.....when they post distance it is the distance they are comfortable getting, reliably, and can count on in a tourney round. So when Climo said "needs to be able to throw 375'" he wasn't saying max D, he was saying accurate disc golf distance.

I don't know a person alive playing disc golf whose max d is accurate. EVERYONE can throw a little farther if they forget accuracy. Hell Wiggins/Gurthie both have thrown over 800'. That isn't their golf distance. I bet they have a comfortable distance more around 500'-550' feet (or possibly more, but even at 600' that's a huge change from accurate to inaccurate distance)

When Ricky says he throws his putter 400', he doesn't mean once. He means controllable. If I say i throw my Roc 400' it is the one time i got a perfect S, and a bit of tail wind and parked a whole based purely on luck, but it's the internet so I boast about it (not true, I haven't pulled that off except downhill, ha)

I always try to post my comfortable distances I throw discs. You know, if i step up to a hole and it is X feet, I know my Teebird goes X feet reliably (well as reliably as I can throw), so that is my accurate distance.
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  #176  
Old 12-30-2013, 10:59 AM
Alcuin Alcuin is offline
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First of all, one thing I don't understand is all this talk of max d without accuracy. I guess the way I learned to throw (Comets and putters only for a while then fairways then, etc.) makes it difficult for me to throw wild max d shots, but if I'm trying to throw farther it's just a harder version of my regular throw. Are you guys really going out into fields or on the course and just spraying as hard as you can? What's the point of that?

Second of all, if you think someone can win a world championship without having all the tools that the rest of the field has, including big distance, you're fooling yourself. You need everything to compete at that level, and saying that you don't is severely underestimating the competition. Have you never watched recorded rounds of elite players? They regularly throw really far and convert for birdies and eagles.

Oh and while discussion is fun, sometimes it needs a dose of reality. Wake me up when someone wins worlds in this day and age who can't hang with the top throwers in terms of distance. You can speculate (new and improved with imaginary statistics!) all you want, but at some point you have to admit that there's a reason no one throwing 375' is winning consistently against today's elite players.

The fact is that 375' is pretty close to my consistent max d. It's not the farthest I've thrown, but it's a solid max d drive for me right now. And I can tell you that I'm routinely out-driven on the course. So the notion of me bringing that kind of distance to play on the top card of an NT event is pretty laughable. And that's just reality. There are plenty of people in my area who can throw farther than me, and it's clearly a disadvantage when I throw a shot on a 500' hole and come up well short while someone else actually has a putt. It's happened in actual reality, not the world of the internet where nothing is as it seems. That's what I'm basing my argument that no, you can't win with 375' of d in the pdga's top competitive field.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcuin View Post
First of all, one thing I don't understand is all this talk of max d without accuracy. I guess the way I learned to throw (Comets and putters only for a while then fairways then, etc.) makes it difficult for me to throw wild max d shots, but if I'm trying to throw farther it's just a harder version of my regular throw. Are you guys really going out into fields or on the course and just spraying as hard as you can? What's the point of that?

Second of all, if you think someone can win a world championship without having all the tools that the rest of the field has, including big distance, you're fooling yourself. You need everything to compete at that level, and saying that you don't is severely underestimating the competition. Have you never watched recorded rounds of elite players? They regularly throw really far and convert for birdies and eagles.

Oh and while discussion is fun, sometimes it needs a dose of reality. Wake me up when someone wins worlds in this day and age who can't hang with the top throwers in terms of distance. You can speculate (new and improved with imaginary statistics!) all you want, but at some point you have to admit that there's a reason no one throwing 375' is winning consistently against today's elite players.

The fact is that 375' is pretty close to my consistent max d. It's not the farthest I've thrown, but it's a solid max d drive for me right now. And I can tell you that I'm routinely out-driven on the course. So the notion of me bringing that kind of distance to play on the top card of an NT event is pretty laughable. And that's just reality. There are plenty of people in my area who can throw farther than me, and it's clearly a disadvantage when I throw a shot on a 500' hole and come up well short while someone else actually has a putt. It's happened in actual reality, not the world of the internet where nothing is as it seems. That's what I'm basing my argument that no, you can't win with 375' of d in the pdga's top competitive field.
Very nice post. I have followed the top Pros around at BRP a course I've played 100+ times. My max is 350 but I struggle to hit that consistently. I'm a bunt. I've shot -6 as my best round. I think I could get to -10 but I have to play darn near perfect. Out of the 100+ rounds I've played there these guys in one round throw better shots on some holes then my best ever. The extra distance on some of these longer 350-750 holes is just a killer. I avg even to -2 most of the time. They just have more birdie holes then I do. Simple math. Hole is wide open and 440 I'm 99% not going to birdie it, they probably do birdie 50-75%.
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  #178  
Old 12-30-2013, 11:29 AM
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Toro71 Toro71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdizzlefizzle View Post
Barry can throw 450+ still and I consider that big.
This. Barry's top card all the time at events here in NC. But there's a reason he played masters @ worlds once he hit the age. Climo too. Not to take anything away from either, they're both DG badasses. Just tells you what it takes to be a top 10 pro, including D.

+1 for thinking it's unlikely in the extreme to have the kind of skill set this "Mr. 375" would have to have, and not be able to throw farther. This is a fun though exercise, but pretty much a purely academic discussion.
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  #179  
Old 12-30-2013, 11:50 AM
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Toro71 Toro71 is offline
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PS

The other thing that I don't think I saw mentioned much in the thread is, course design.

When (if?) Climo said this, if it was early in the warp speed era, well, 500' of juice back then was pretty much useless, because the courses didn't generally ask for it. Took design some time to keep up with the technology.
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  #180  
Old 12-30-2013, 12:01 PM
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Aim For The Chains Aim For The Chains is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro71 View Post
PS

The other thing that I don't think I saw mentioned much in the thread is, course design.

When (if?) Climo said this, if it was early in the warp speed era, well, 500' of juice back then was pretty much useless, because the courses didn't generally ask for it. Took design some time to keep up with the technology.
majority of courses are still this way. most 9 hole courses I can think of here, and that's a TON-- have no shots over 500' let alone even 450'. Even many of the 18 hole courses only have a few so really how many holes does it benefit a player to have that D over accuracy? Why doesn't avery Jenkins dominate or David Wiggins? They are not very accurate and struggle putting.
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