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Old 07-31-2013, 05:31 PM
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King John Henry King John Henry is offline
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Stability Question

A couple weeks ago a buddy of mine found a champion boss. When he tried to throw it, the disc went out 300 ft or so and cut hard left. His response was, "This disc sucks". I told him the disc didn't suck, but that it was speed stable and that he wasn't getting it up to speed, so it wasn't flying the way it is supposed to.

Fast forward a week. Same buddy finds a star vulcan. He throws it on a 355 ft. dog leg right and put it 20 feet past the basket. He threw it with enough height for it to do a huge turn to the right with a small fade at the end. A couple holes later he looks at me and says, "If I wasn't getting the boss up to speed, how I am I getting this up to speed enough for it to do its turn if they are both speed 13 discs?" I didn't know how to answer and was hoping you guys could shed some light on the subject.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2013, 05:36 PM
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sugarnot sugarnot is offline
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various reasons, but to me a comparable concept would be the fact that I can take a brand new nuke and throw it and it not turn over but can take a beat to crap one and flip it into a roller.

Muchless the fact you are talking two different discs in different plastics, probably different weights. There are all sorts of reasons for the difference in flight.

I'd also like to point out that depending how how a disc is thrown it can fool you into thinking you are throwing it correctly and it doing as it is supposed to do versus you throwing a certain way "making" it do what you THINK it is supposed to do.

Last edited by sugarnot; 07-31-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:36 PM
StarFirebird StarFirebird is offline
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Understable discs are easier to get up to speed in my opinion.

I have 3 Katanas and can rip them suckers out to 440ft. I tried a Boss out and I couldn't even get it out to 400ft. Now a Destroyer I can get to 415ft to 420ft. So for me the Boss was too fast for me in that stability range,When I stepped down 1 speed for the same stability range I was able to throw it better.

This is probably your answer. I'm sure others will have better ones.

Last edited by StarFirebird; 07-31-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:37 PM
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chillis chillis is offline
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Pretty basic answer : The Boss is designed to fade HARD, whereas the vulcan is designed with a large S-curve in mind (has much more Turn). Despite their similar speed rating, they are on differents ends of the stability spectrum.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:40 PM
garublador garublador is offline
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Joe's has the Vulcan at a 5 power requirement (325'-375') and the Boss at a 6 (375'+), so the Vulcan is a bit easier to throw. It's also more understable.

It's also difficult to tell how beat discs are when you find them without inspecting them super close and throwing them a few times. There's also the ridiculously small sample size and fact that high speed discs aren't horribly consistent from disc to disc and we aren't horribly consistent from throw to throw, so there could have been some fluke going on in one or both of the discs and or throws.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:40 PM
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DiscinFiend DiscinFiend is offline
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It really depends how beat the disc is, weight, wind, elevation, throwing technique ect. Anyone can throw a light beat in Vulcan & make it go right (RHBH) but that doesn't mean they got it up to speed. The fact that he couldn't throw the Boss over 300ft shows he doesn't have the arm for it yet.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:42 PM
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King John Henry King John Henry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillis View Post
Pretty basic answer : The Boss is designed to fade HARD, whereas the vulcan is designed with a large S-curve in mind (has much more Turn). Despite their similar speed rating, they are on differents ends of the stability spectrum.
They are both understable discs though. The boss is -1 turn fade 3, the Vulcan is -3 fade 4.

So if my buddy was getting his vulcan up to speed to do it's large S-curve, shouldn't the boss be doing a slight turn to the right?
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:42 PM
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DiscinFiend DiscinFiend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillis View Post
Pretty basic answer : The Boss is designed to fade HARD, whereas the vulcan is designed with a large S-curve in mind (has much more Turn). Despite their similar speed rating, they are on differents ends of the stability spectrum.
I disagree the Boss isn't designed to fade hard at all if you can get it up to speed. Yes is it overstable but not a meat hook by any means.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:43 PM
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DiscinFiend DiscinFiend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King John Henry View Post
They are both understable discs though. The boss is -1 turn fade 3, the Vulcan is -3 fade 4.

So if my buddy was getting his vulcan up to speed to do it's large S-curve, shouldn't the boss be doing a slight turn to the right?
The Boss isn't understable...
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2013, 05:46 PM
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King John Henry King John Henry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscinFiend View Post
It really depends how beat the disc is, weight, wind, elevation, throwing technique ect. Anyone can throw a light beat in Vulcan & make it go right (RHBH) but that doesn't mean they got it up to speed. The fact that he couldn't throw the Boss over 300ft shows he doesn't have the arm for it yet.
He definitely doesn't have the arm for speed 13 discs in general, in my opinion.

The vulcan he was throwing was around 167 and looks to be pretty brand new.

I just don't know how to explain to him how he can get one speed 13 disc to do what it's supposed to, but not another.
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